Ford engine cobra vs. Chevy engine cobra- race for bragging rights?

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You know I meant to ask what do you mean "danger factor" and poor geometry? If you are really saying a "modern chassis" are "safer" than the original design what specific facts are you relying on or empirical data are you relying on? Last I checked many originals are still being vintage raced safely. The current Shelby production Cobras raced in a spec series. No one was killed and no cars failed catastrophically as far as I know. The original Cobras won a World Title and 7 SCCA A production titles. Ken Miles and Dave McDonald were killed testing "more technologically" advanced cars (the GT40 J car and an Indy car respectively) not Cobras.

In fact the failures that predominate the threads on this site all seem to be those "more advanced" "stiffer" chassis with good geometry cars you are alluding to. Geez, just last week we had someone tragically killed when a SPF rear failed.

I don't recall any threads on this site dealing with CSX failures (original or current production) causing deaths or injuries. Maybe there were but I don't recall any. Maybe you can enlighten us.

You want weight reduction? These cars already weigh only 2000 lbs. You want a stiffer chassis?. Fine. How is that "safer"? I can follow some attenuated argument as to track use but it's not safer for street use. Perhaps it improves suspension ability in competition settings on the track but that doesn't necessarily make it safer necessarliy. I could argue the opposite.

Absent a full cage your "cutting edge, stiff chassis Cobra replica" will fold like a cheap camera if hit on the street by that Honda Mini Van just like my "dated" design Cobra. You will be just as dead a me.

Why tie yourself to "dated designs"? Well .... the Cobra shape is a dated design, no?. You keep tying yourself to that one. You could improve the design of that also. It's aero characteristics suck. However, isn't the idea to replicate the Car your pretending to drive? Hell if all you want is the "body shape" but nothing else and you want the leading cutting edge technology performance then go right to the top and buy a used F1 race car and slap a Street Beast body to it. Keep the engine where it is since no need to be faithful to the original. That right there is cutting edge "Cobra replica" all right. But is it really a Cobra replica? When have we gone so far from what these cars are supposed to be that owner interpretation has pushed it the equivalent of some "f'n" modern art master piece that has absolutely no relation to the Cobra to any degree other than façade. It is a pretender wearing a Cobra Halloween mask. Nothing more.

Having a Chevy motor in a Cobra replica is sacrilege and the best and fastest way to torpedo the resale value of any Cobra replica. Period. End of story. Any argument to the contrary is farcical.

You must be a lawyer and not have any technical background at all, to call a an original Cobra safe in a crash is absurd. What I meant by danger factor was the difficulty of driving a 2000 pound + car with 500 or so horsepower on street tires or even race tires. You had better have quick hands and know what you are doing to get into the throttle in one of these cars.
The power- to- weight ratio alone is enough of a problem. Couple that with a short wheel base and you have a recipe for disaster. Do you really think a continuation car is any safer than many of the replicas? If you do, you don't have a clue about crash safety. Vintage racing is a poor example. You have an accident, you get banned for a year in many series. Nobody wants to crash a valuable car and if they do it is usually minor. When it isn't, they are hurt or killed. I love the shape of the Cobra body. I have had mine for almost 49 years and it is unchanged. I just don't like the design of the suspension because it limits what the car could be with that light weight. I drove my first winged Formula car in 1972 and what an eye opening experience! Brakes that were linear, suspension that worked properly and great cornering power. I realized then that a Cobra could be a lot better than Ford, and Shelby American made it in 1965. I would not use safety in a sentence about any original or continuation car. The main frame rails are under your a$$. How do you think you will fare in a side crash? You will probably be killed. How about front crash? The engine will join you in the passenger compartment; no crush zone, and no steering column collapse feature. A serious crash will probably kill you because you are not protected with a good belt system or air bags. The improvements I was alluding to are for dynamic handling NOT safety.
I was supervisor of passenger car front structure at one time in my career at Ford and our unit had to design the structure to meet 35 mph crash standards. I was the body engineering program manager for the 89 T-Bird program where we had to meet seat belt retention, roll over, roof crush and front and rear crash standards, so I have an idea of what happens in a crash.
Later on, I was chief passenger car chassis engineer for Ford and then Director of commercial truck engineering. All this bloviating is to establish my credentials to comment on the original Cobra design. I knew Klaus Arning (designer of the 427 Cobra suspension) and I am sure he would agree with all this were he still with us. You must not be exploring the limits of your car because if you were, you would see how bad it is compared with your Ford GT, one of the best handling and safest cars out there.
Too bad you are not in California because I would love to give you a ride in an original car that actually works dynamically. I had a 1963 Stingray with fuel injection, racing suspension and brake package when I bought my Cobra in 1965 and it handled way better than the Cobra as delivered.
The Cobra's acceleration and braking capability were so superior though, that I was happy at the time.
FE engines, don't get me started. At least the new blocks and cylinder heads are better than the very dated “side oiler” design. The majority of people with replicas have them to drive and enjoy not to try and fool someone into thinking it is a “real one” so why not have a modern engine that is reliable, light and makes great power?

[REAL 1]

You must not be lawyer because you obviously didn't carefully read what I said. I did not in anyway say an original or continuation Cobra was "safe". What I did say it is no more dangerous on the street than any "rigid" chassis replica. The "superior" geometry design of modern suspension mean zip as far as safety on the street.

What I also said there are example after example of the new "modern" replica failing in design and construction, with the latest tragic example last week. I haven't seen similar examples of failure with originals or continuation cars. Not saying there haven't been just haven't seen it here. I invited others to enlighten me as the CSX failures they know about causing injury.

Pick your replica. Just name it and take an original Cobra or continuation Cobra and T bone it with your average SUV and regardless of where the frame rails are you are just as dead in any of them. Same for any other impact..take your pick...front rear, 1/2 front etc...Chances are you are not fairing well in either a modern replica with its modern chassis or a Cobra orignial or continuation.

From a dynamic standpoint for track use I pretty much conceded that advances in design would improve handling. You are still left with a 90" wheel base and tremendous power and I don't need to be an engineer to know that still presents issues that require more caution and judicious throttle application than with a longer more stable wheelbase.

I am impressed with your background and technical experience based on your "bloviating". I would love to see pics of your Cobra. I'll look it up in the Registry put out by that club, whats it called again, it's just a car club. I can't recall but I'll grab that book they put out and look up your car.