SuperCharger - Belt driven

[mdross1]

Until recently never gave this option much thought but just might be a very good idea for boosting horsepower. A friend dropped off a magazine that advertised a billet supercharger "TorqStorm" it got the juices flowing.

Any of you go this route the big block Ford kit looks like it just might fit under the hood.

[Karl Bebout]

Huffers are 'way cool but you better ensure the bottom end components can handle the extra HP and that you don't start off with too much compression. I'd be leery of even 9:1 to get the greatest benefit. Cam and port flow are also pretty critical.

[itstock]

I'm interested in doing something (would go with procharger, never heard of this manufacturer). I guess the other option is switch to fuel injection and blower.

[eschaider]

You want EFI and either a Kenne Bell or Whipple Twin Screw blower.

Don't get crazy with boost on bigger engines. The HP comes stunningly fast and the engine has max torque essentially from the hit. A 427 cubic inch engine with around 10 psi of boost will easily be in the 900 HP range if not higher.

The dangerous element here is the max torque from essentially idle. If you thought a 650 HP FE was difficult to control the blown variant will take your breath away. They get out of control much faster and more violently than a n/a alternative.

You can easily produce 700 to 800 HP out of a 302 cubic inch displacement. With the Twin Screw blower you do not need big displacement or RPM.


Ed

[mdross1]

Winter is refusing to let go so have some spare time for leg work. The 460 bottom end was built with all the right stuff, compression is in the 9:5 to 1 area. Heads are Ford MotorSport A429 aluminum with custom built competition headers. My thoughts were to keep the boost in the 5 to 6 lb. area. Looking at the engine bay space is a premium with the big block. These belt driven superchargers can lay off the right or left side may not be enough space. Still have a plenty of leg work thought the forums would be a good place to start.

The other option I'm considering since the top-end is coming off the engine this fall to polish all the aluminum was to install a roller cam.

[Detroit Bill]

Just curious are you lacking enough power now? It is the technical challenge?

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Just curious are you lacking enough power now? It is the technical challenge?

Lacking power? depends on the mood usually no but quite often the urge strikes for a hard row through the gears always want an extra 100hp or so then.

Technical challenge? partly, sure feels good with the end results.

The Cobra has been neglected for a long time it's due for an upgrade or two.

[D-CEL]

I love centrifugal blowers, (I’ve had three myself) they are a great compliment to a late model EFI car or truck. Near stock drivability and 100-200hp increase with a little tuning is not difficult.
I would be curious if that kit (or any factory bbf kit) will fit in the limited confines of a cobras engine bay. Do a search for ByronRACE here on CC. He built a Vortech blown West Coast years ago, it was a quite a fabrication project . Project Ludicrous Speed
I think taking your motor to 545-557ci (4.500 stroke @ 4.390 or 4.440 bore) with a ported SCJ or P51 head @ 10.5-12 to 1, nice solid cam (or a roller), single plane and a bigger carb or EFI rig would be a fun package.

“easily produce 700 to 800 HP out of a 302 cubic inch displacement. With the Twin Screw blower you do not need big displacement or RPM.”
I disagree: 700-800 hp from 302ci requires A LOT of everything! Aftermarket block, Big flowing heads, High dollar rotating assembly, a big blower, race fuel and RPM. Yes it can and has been done, but the motor will be a peaky, high maintenance and temperamental (sounds like my X wife) Not the making of a good street motor.
And that is the beauty of the 385 series BBF. We can make those numbers naturally aspirated on with a stock block, an $800 Chinese forged crank, good alum heads and possibly on pump gas!

Jason

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

... “easily produce 700 to 800 HP out of a 302 cubic inch displacement. With the Twin Screw blower you do not need big displacement or RPM.”

I disagree: 700-800 hp from 302ci requires A LOT of everything! Aftermarket block, Big flowing heads, High dollar rotating assembly, a big blower, race fuel and RPM. Yes it can and has been done, but the motor will be a peaky, high maintenance and temperamental (sounds like my X wife) Not the making of a good street motor.
And that is the beauty of the 385 series BBF. We can make those numbers naturally aspirated on with a stock block, an $800 Chinese forged crank, good alum heads and possibly on pump gas!

Jason

Apologies Jason been away for a while so I did not respond promptly.

You are missing the mark here by a country mile though. The twin screw compressors have an extraordinary track record in the power production department — usually with just a larger set of injectors, MAF upgrade and fuel pump upgrade.

A personal acquaintance of mine, Harold Horton, won the Terminator / GT500 shootout last year. He used an 11 year old showroom stock engine that had never been apart or out of the car! He has raced it almost exclusively for the last eight or so years and not surprisingly won multiple events with it. His upgrades were what I spoke to in the beginning of this post. His final round performance was in the low 8.3x at middle 160's mph-wise at the Shootout.

His car weighs about 3300/3400 lbs and consistently runs 8.3x times in the low to middle 160 mph bracket. The car idles at 800 rpm and when driven on the street gets a little over 20 mpg. Now here is the best part, that is unfortunately really tough. It turns out it is a really big engine at ultra high rpm — it displaces 281 cubic inches and he shifts at between 6300 and 6500 rpm.

The car uses the original OEM ECU. The trick (if there is a trick) is the blower, the fuel supple, the injectors and knowing how to tune your engine and drive your car.

Here is a video of the car in action click here ⬇︎Stock Cobra

It looks like he might break into the sevens this year with a freshened engine and some hot rod cams. He has already been a whisker short of 170 mph.

Not bad for an 11 year old, off the show room floor, untouched stock everything in the engine compartment except for blower injectors and fuel supply, 281 cubic inch midget motor.

Positive displacement screw blowers and people who know how to use and tune them make a BIG difference.


Ed


p.s. Imagine what an engine like that, in a car like ours, that weighed 1000 lbs less might be like ...

[itstock]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Apologies Jason been away for a while so I did not respond promptly.

You are missing the mark here by a country mile though. The twin screw compressors have an extraordinary track record in the power production department — usually with just a larger set of injectors, MAF upgrade and fuel pump upgrade.

A personal acquaintance of mine, Harold Horton, won the Terminator / GT500 shootout last year. He used an 11 year old showroom stock engine that had never been apart or out of the car! He has raced it almost exclusively for the last eight or so years and not surprisingly won multiple events with it. His upgrades were what I spoke to in the beginning of this post. His final round performance was in the low 8.3x at middle 160's mph-wise at the Shootout.

His car weighs about 3300/3400 lbs and consistently runs 8.3x times in the low to middle 160 mph bracket. The car idles at 800 rpm and when driven on the street gets a little over 20 mpg. Now here is the best part, that is unfortunately really tough. It turns out it is a really big engine at ultra high rpm — it displaces 281 cubic inches and he shifts at between 6300 and 6500 rpm.

The car uses the original OEM ECU. The trick (if there is a trick) is the blower, the fuel supple, the injectors and knowing how to tune your engine and drive your car.

Here is a video of the car in action click here ⬇︎ Stock Cobra

It looks like he might break into the sevens this year with a freshened engine and some hot rod cams. He has already been a whisker short of 170 mph.

Not bad for an 11 year old, off the show room floor, untouched stock everything in the engine compartment except for blower injectors and fuel supply, 281 cubic inch midget motor.

Positive displacement screw blowers and people who know how to use and tune them make a BIG difference.


Ed


p.s. Imagine what an engine like that, in a car like ours, that weighed 1000 lbs less might be like ...

You are comparing one of the strongest factory stock shortblocks ever in production to "bolt this thing on your 302 and get 800hp". Speaking specifically of the 302 block, 600hp WILL require an aftermarket block or you can count your blessings every time you don't crack the block (been there done that at under 450rwhp, not to say it HASN'T been done though, just not reliably). I have also had an 03 Cobra at over 700rwhp, no problems what so ever. You are making two completely different comparisons, and you are BOTH right in regards to the particular engines that you are discussing.

Besides, twin screws/roots/rotors are notoriously HARD on engines, quite contrary to your statement.

[mhacars]

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...s/IMG_0977.JPG

[Karl Bebout]

If you are willing to go with a funky hood, you could always go for the "supersnake" look like Shelby's dual paxton car from back in the day. I thought it was ugly, but I'm sure the scoop wouldn't have been seen from 'way behind.

[mhacars]

The v2 Vortech system packaged by Shelby does not need any hood modifications.

[mdross1]

Thank you all for the input there is certainly some serious talent carousing the pages on this forum. That huffed mod engine mustang is certainly is impressive. As it turns out my car with the 385 engine armed with belt driven dimensions without removing inner fender liners supercharging is out.
Honestly this engine is close to what I'm looking for now a roller cam should/will be the answer. For now going to enjoy the car and loosen up the all new drive train before tearing into it.
Mike

[thorconstr]

That's pretty slick, and not that expensive.

[eschaider]

Good show Mike and congrats on your decision. That will be a very enjoyable ride.

Ed

[xlr8tr]

Probably other options but Chris Alston has a pretty cool gear drive system that drives a Procharger right off the end of the crank:
https://www.cachassisworks.com/cac_p...ger-drive.html

[mdross1]

Just what I need Mark a little more fodder to whet the whistle. For now plan is to polish all the engine aluminum and roller cam change. If not quite enough then by all means will look into the Chris Alston drive system that looks as if it could be made to work. Might even call for dimensions.
Thank you all again.

Mike

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by mdross1

Just what I need Mark a little more fodder to whet the whistle. For now plan is to polish all the engine aluminum and roller cam change. If not quite enough then by all means will look into the Chris Alston drive system that looks as if it could be made to work. Might even call for dimensions.
Thank you all again.

Mike

My current car has a 427.....I will probably stick with a small block but give it a bit more punch next go around. Speaking of the 385 series I think that it would be an awesome motor punched out to 550+ or whatever size. For a street car running a big hydraulic roller it would be a great street cruiser but I still think it would be insane on tires and just trying to remotely hook it up without some super sticky rears and the right suspension. I just got rid of a gem of an 03 cobra with a stock motor with a KB2.6 twin screw running just 16lb making 575hp/575tq at the wheels. The torque was literally at 500+rwtq at 2000rpm and up. It sounds really fun but I think it would be pretty treacherous. When I was thinking of my first cobra I kept thinking I would go the coyote route but now after I've had the 427 I really enjoy it. In the future I could see having a second cobra with a mod setup.....they are easy to modify and produce insane power if that's what your into.

[D-CEL]

Ed, you are confusing yourself and the issues.
Not bashing anyone’s blower, Apparently, you misinterpret my post to say “can’t be done”
The correct interpretation is “poor street engine” for all of the reasons I gave and I stand by them.
you said "easily produce 700 to 800HP out of a 302. (In the Cobra world 302 typically means WINSOR engine).
Your post did not say “a 4 valve, Alum block, Mod motor with a forged crank, aftermarket forged rods, Forged pistons, intercooler.”
Be that as it may, I dont know Harold or the car you posted about, but my experience shows that the boost, blower size, injector size, fuel flow and octane It takes to make over 1100 hp in a 281ci package, makes not a fun street driver!
And if you think a big block ford with a centrifugal blower at 5-8 psi is problem, what would you call that 25-26psi, light switch fused hand grenade?

Can be done, sure.
Why?

Jason