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-   ALL COBRA TALK (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/)
-   -   Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument? (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/134697-why-does-every-thread-here-devolve-into-real-vs-replica-argument.html)

fordracing65 10-15-2015 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1367379)
You obviously lack knowledge of the Registry and the different classifications of original Cobras no less continuation Cobras. I certainly won't waste my time educating you so you understand my clear but subtle point and parallel. I let you just "wonder" about it or in your case most likely not as it would take too much effort on your part. Stumble along.
If you would read all the threads, you would see where this was a quote from one of your cohorts who said the 2 had nothing in common, well that is 100% false, they are both made in South Africa at Hi-Tech and they are both glass, so you tell me how I don't know my ****...I have owned a Superfromance as well as own a Kirkham, so enlighten me how you know more about the SPF than me...

Al G 10-15-2015 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65 (Post 1367389)
If you would read all the threads, you would see where this was a quote from one of your cohorts who said the 2 had nothing in common, well that is 100% false, they are both made in South Africa at Hi-Tech and they are both glass, so you tell me how I don't know my ****...I have owned a Superfromance as well as own a Kirkham, so enlighten me how you know more about the SPF than me...
Because they're made in the same factory and both are fiberglass they're the same thing? Seriously, that's the best you've got? How about the fact one has a round tube frame and the othe other has a square tube frame? Still the same? So I guess Evan's car is the same as an original because they're both made of aluminum. Wait a minute, so is yours. Congratulations, your car is the same as an original Cobra.

Joe's Garage 10-15-2015 07:29 PM
Turn the crank, the monkey dances.

RodKnock 10-15-2015 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1367387)
I know your know trying to copy my line but you have to get it right.
Well, as you know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So, who do you think CS was trying to flatter when he copied the original 998? :3DSMILE:

Joe's Garage 10-15-2015 07:57 PM
If you want a Shelby glass replica with a stiffer frame, order an SPF.

Dimis 10-15-2015 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Garage (Post 1367400)
If you want a Shelby glass replica with a stiffer frame, order an SPF.
It's comments like this, that give Evan and co the right to claim "sour grapes".

Maybe they don't want an SPF chassis?
Maybe they want to replicate the experience of driving an original style chassis.

Its each persons individual call as to what they desire...
If that's the case the csx is the better replica... No?

But for me that there is the point.
They're all copies of the real thing, just to different degrees.
While some stop at the chassis, others the engine or shape, others the badges.
The continuation series cars stop at history and the year of manufacturing and some even at the composition of the body. ;)

fordracing65 10-15-2015 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al G (Post 1367395)
Because they're made in the same factory and both are fiberglass they're the same thing? Seriously, that's the best you've got? How about the fact one has a round tube frame and the othe other has a square tube frame? Still the same? So I guess Evan's car is the same as an original because they're both made of aluminum. Wait a minute, so is yours. Congratulations, your car is the same as an original Cobra.
Again, the original quote said a Shelby glass and an SPF glass car have nothing in common, and I pleasantly pointed out they are both made in the same factory and they are both made of the same glass, am I wrong, no, and, Thank you...so they have 2 things in common for those that can't add...

fordracing65 10-15-2015 09:06 PM
[quote=Dimis;1367408]It's comments like this, that give Evan and co the right to claim "sour grapes".

Maybe they don't want an SPF chassis?
Maybe they want to replicate the experience of driving an original style chassis.

Its each persons individual call as to what they desire...
If that's the case the csx is the better replica... No?

But for me that there is the point.
They're all copies of the real thing, just to different degrees.
While some stop at the chassis, others the engine or shape, others the badges.
The continuation series cars stop at history and the year of manufacturing. ;)[/QUOTE


Yes, are cars are all copies therefore they cannot be real or genuine, they mean the same thing...replica does not mean real or genuine...

RodKnock 10-15-2015 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimis (Post 1367408)
They're all copies of the real thing, just to different degrees. While some stop at the chassis, others the engine or shape, others the badges. The continuation series cars stop at history and the year of manufacturing. ;)
Putting aside that fact that a Shelby fiberglass replica body is not aluminum and is further away from the 998, I'll add that the Kirkham/CSX aluminum bodies have thicker aluminum, the steel used in chassis is different, the brakes and suspension aren't OEM, no orignal Halibrand magnesium wheels, exhaust, interior materials, etc. are all facsimiles, engines and transmissions but for a very select few aren't properly date coded, etc. Kirkham builds them, not AC or Shelby (who cares about the subcontractor parallels), maybe some OEM wiring and switches might be used, so what. In reality none of us own anything even that close to the 998.

So it more than just the gap of 30-50 years, it's that the materials aren't OEM/NOS or even real close reproductions in nearly all cases.

NewYorkGuy 10-15-2015 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimis (Post 1367371)
...
Think of it like this: If we were both watching a tribute band, belting the same tunes as the real band, and I told your buddy, that the band was the REAL deal, would you not feel I was duping your mate? How would you view me if I did that, and we both KNEW that the band wasn't the real thing... ?
funny that u mentioned tribute band.. 20+years ago, I went to a Guns N Rose concert. flash forward to 2012, i was abroad in United Kingdom and I went to a GnR concert. Now I can tell friends I saw the original, real GnR band and a genuine continuation GnR band.
thanks cobra guys!

Dangerous Doug 10-15-2015 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1367413)
Putting aside that fact that a Shelby fiberglass replica body is not aluminum and is further away from the 998, I'll add that the Kirkham/CSX aluminum bodies have thicker aluminum, the steel used in chassis is different, the brakes and suspension aren't OEM, no orignal Halibrand magnesium wheels, exhaust, interior materials, etc. are all facsimiles, engines and transmissions but for a very select few aren't properly date coded, etc. Kirkham builds them, not AC or Shelby (who cares about the subcontractor parallels), maybe some OEM wiring and switches might be used, so what. In reality none of us own anything even that close to the 998.

So it more than just the gap of 30-50 years, it's that the materials aren't OEM/NOS or even real close reproductions in nearly all cases.
Salient point. The materials are not even the same in an absolute sense. So, there are material core differences between the "real" and replica/continuation Cobras.

That being said, I am mighty proud of my ERA 289 FIA Cobra. I would be equally proud of a Kirkham, or a Shelby continuation. If I had a Shelby continuation I would think it was pretty damn cool to have a small part of the Shelby legacy---and I would have paid dearly for it. The cat's meow, though, would be to own a Vintage Cobra from the Cobra's 60's heyday.

People look at vintage cars of any make differently than other cars. Perhaps it's because they are looking at a survivor of time, or perhaps it's the history that the vintage car represents. Either way, there is something extraordinary about "vintage".

So, call your continuation Cobra's real if you want---just don't misrepresent them as vintage.
DD

Joe's Garage 10-15-2015 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimis (Post 1367408)
It's comments like this, that give Evan and co the right to claim "sour grapes".

Maybe they don't want an SPF chassis?
Maybe they want to replicate the experience of driving an original style chassis.

Its each persons individual call as to what they desire...
If that's the case the csx is the better replica... No?

But for me that there is the point.
They're all copies of the real thing, just to different degrees.
While some stop at the chassis, others the engine or shape, others the badges.
The continuation series cars stop at history and the year of manufacturing and some even at the composition of the body. ;)
Clearly that post went right over your head, you missed the point completly.

Dimis 10-16-2015 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Garage (Post 1367420)
Clearly that post went right over your head, you missed the point completly.
How so?

REAL 1 10-16-2015 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65 (Post 1367389)
If you would read all the threads, you would see where this was a quote from one of your cohorts who said the 2 had nothing in common, well that is 100% false, they are both made in South Africa at Hi-Tech and they are both glass, so you tell me how I don't know my ****...I have owned a Superfromance as well as own a Kirkham, so enlighten me how you know more about the SPF than me...
I've read some of the "posts" and some of the "threads". I confess I don't read them all for various reasons. Don't need to. The facts, law and Registry are clear. Your posts are many times not read due to nastiness and personal insults and as they contain little more.

The post above I did look at and since it was mild compared to your usual 3rd grade temper tantrums so I'll respond.

I'm sure you know all about SPF and Kirkham. And? Your point is???? Once again you didn't read or perhaps understand what I was saying. Epidemic around here for some. With others its refusal to accept basic simple facts, law and read the Registry.

Here, since you weren't that nasty I'll give you some help and a hint you on the subject I was discussing. Turn to page 30 of the 40th Edition of the World Registry of Cobras & GT40s. See if you can see a parallel between some original Cobras and the manufacturing of current production Cobras as to the glass Shelbys.

If...IF, your not nasty and seem to be putting in honest effort I'll help.

:)

P.S. Did you know that AC had different subcontractors doing panel beating?

REAL 1 10-16-2015 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimis (Post 1367408)
It's comments like this, that give Evan and co the right to claim "sour grapes".

Maybe they don't want an SPF chassis?
Maybe they want to replicate the experience of driving an original style chassis.

Its each persons individual call as to what they desire...
If that's the case the csx is the better replica... No?

But for me that there is the point.
They're all copies of the real thing, just to different degrees.
While some stop at the chassis, others the engine or shape, others the badges.
The continuation series cars stop at history and the year of manufacturing and some even at the composition of the body. ;)
I appreciate your comments. You are entitled to your opinion and you analysis. I respect that. I won't try and convince you otherwise except to say you should read the Registry. If you disagree with the Registry then fine. Free country here and I suppose down there too.

However, I think you are clearly erroneous based on the facts, law and as made clear and explained by the Registry. Its all in the Registry and made crystal clear. Misuse of terms like "replica" are explained. You and others continue to "misuse" those terms but if that's what a "replica" means to you great. But again you are free to carry on as you wish, think what you think and believe what you want being wrong the entire time. ;) Not all who disagree with me are suffering from sour grapes. But it's clear by the tone and tenor many are.

Have a great day. :)

Ron61 10-16-2015 06:33 AM
I love this thread. Since it begin I haven't had to read the comics for my daily laughs. Carry on the good work guys. :LOL: :LOL:

Ron :)

Joe's Garage 10-16-2015 07:17 AM
Who has a Carroll Shelby autographed glove box door? That is BIG for replica accuracy, personal endorsement by Carroll himself!

RodKnock 10-16-2015 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1367208)
SAAC website statement in or about 2008 in relevant part:

......As far as CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars are concerned, SAAC accepts these cars as genuine Shelby American Cobras (as opposed to "original" Shelby American Cobras). The definition we use to identify an original Cobra is one which was, 1) built between 1961 and 1968, 2) at the direction of and under contract from Carroll Shelby/Shelby American Inc., and 3) sold by Shelby American or one of its franchised dealers. The only difference between original Cobras and CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars is the time frame in which they were built....
Now I get it. You quoted a source that no longer exists. That's why you can't post a link. None exists.

So, the SAAC website statement is gone, huh. I wonder why and I bet the Registry is next. Part 1 of the plan, revise the SAAC website to remove language re: Shelby Cobra replicas, is complete. Part 2, revise Registry is next. Then SAAC will have deleted all "liberties" and call a "spade a spade."

Maybe they'll keep those "Cobra-like" and "true replica" references.

NewYorkGuy 10-16-2015 07:28 AM
Silence from Cobra dealers?
 
How does the Kirkham family answer "is it a real" Cobra question?
What about Cashburn & Mark IV, do they steer their customers away from the "is it real" question?

Joe's Garage 10-16-2015 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1367450)
Now I get it. You quoted a source that no longer exists. That's why you can't post a link. None exists.

So, the SAAC website statement is gone, huh. I wonder why and I bet the Registry is next. Part 1 of the plan, revise the SAAC website to remove language re: Shelby Cobra replicas, is complete. Part 2, revise Registry is next. Then SAAC will have deleted all "liberties" and call a "spade a spade."

Maybe they'll keep those "Cobra-like" and "true replica" references.
Ah, another bust - well done! "I'm not too good with Web links" lol.
And he wonders why he has credibility issues :LOL:


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