New Ford flat plane crank engine

olddog · #1 (**permalink**) 12-12-2015, 10:01 AM

Holy Flat-Plane Crankshaft: We Finally Get an In-Depth Look at the 2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350/GT350R

http://jalopnik.com/what-is-a-flat-p...-ex-1659688239

Ron61 · #2 (**permalink**) 12-12-2015, 10:43 AM

I would really like to have one of the new GT-350 Mustangs. There is one of the street versions here and it really is nice and sounds great.

Ron

Buzz · #3 (**permalink**) 12-12-2015, 11:21 AM

I really like what I've been reading and hearing about this engine. I think it would be a better fit in a light sports car like a Cobra than the heavy big block luggers that we're accustomed to. Suddenly I'm daydreaming about a nice, accurate-looking replica with modern suspension and brakes and one of these revving, wailing engines providing the music and the motivation. hmmm...

xb-60 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-12-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz

....Suddenly I'm daydreaming about a nice, accurate-looking replica with modern suspension and brakes...

Buzz, something like this maybe?

Cheers,
Glen

Buzz · #5 (**permalink**) 12-12-2015, 04:18 PM

Absolutely Glen! The Pace chassis is exactly what I was thinking of. And now that you mention it that flat plane revver would really be at home in an FIA replica. I've been following your build - can't wait to see the finished body.

xb-60 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-12-2015, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz

Absolutely Glen! The Pace chassis is exactly what I was thinking of. And now that you mention it that flat plane revver would really be at home in an FIA replica. I've been following your build - can't wait to see the finished body.

Ha ha.....even with that super chassis (oops, semi-monocoque) I'm still going traditional with the engine. For me it has to be an SBF with a Toploader behind it.
No doubt about it though, that flat plane crank engine will be one of the great engines, for sure.

Cheers,
Glen

olddog · #7 (**permalink**) 12-16-2015, 07:49 AM

So, if the flat plane crank shaft is easier/cheaper to manufacture, allows more RPM, better breathing, thus more power, then why hasn't racing teams been dropping flat plane cranks in every block ever raced? Why don't I see advertisements for a flat plane crank and matching cam for every push-rod V-8 ever made?

Until now I never heard of the term flat plane crank. I thought I was well read, but obviously not nearly as much as I arrogantly thought. Anyone else caught off guard on this?

joyridin' · #8 (**permalink**) 12-16-2015, 10:30 AM

I remember seeing a small block Chevy have a flat plane crank close to 30 years ago. It was a racing engine with a Hilborn fuel injection. They were setting it up for a dyno run at a shop near where I lived.

twobjshelbys · #9 (**permalink**) 12-16-2015, 10:43 AM

On the FPC "invention". it really isn't new, only newly hyped. However, this minimizes the amount of invention that Ford had to do to get a FPC working in such a large displacement engine.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/flat-...kim?_mSplash=1

JWilly · #10 (**permalink**) 12-19-2015, 06:35 PM

One of the new GT 350's was brought to a local car show this summer (by a Ford exec) and it was very impressive. A couple of things though. It did leak oil from an oil filter that had vibrated loose. Also, the specs were 525 hp and 400 ft/lbs torque. My stroked 351W is rated at 515 hp and 500 ft/lbs torque. My engine obviously will not do 8000+ rpm's but how would it do in a 1/4 mile drag race against the GT 350? Would it be close or will I be eating GT 350 dust? Just curious.

olddog · #11 (**permalink**) 12-20-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWilly

One of the new GT 350's was brought to a local car show this summer (by a Ford exec) and it was very impressive. A couple of things though. It did leak oil from an oil filter that had vibrated loose. Also, the specs were 525 hp and 400 ft/lbs torque. My stroked 351W is rated at 515 hp and 500 ft/lbs torque. My engine obviously will not do 8000+ rpm's but how would it do in a 1/4 mile drag race against the GT 350? Would it be close or will I be eating GT 350 dust? Just curious.

The OEMs are required to do their dyno numbers with the air filter on, the exhaust connected, and the belts driving everything.... that is dyno it as it will be installed. That change happen in the early 1970s and all engines dropped at least 100 Hp that year. Engine builders are not required to do this and none of them do, as far as I know. Not to mention many play little tricks to make the numbers look better than they actually are.

That said your engine verses the GT 350 in identical cars, I would bet the GT 350 would eat you alive.

Jac Mac · #12 (**permalink**) 12-20-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWilly

One of the new GT 350's was brought to a local car show this summer (by a Ford exec) and it was very impressive. A couple of things though. It did leak oil from an oil filter that had vibrated loose. Also, the specs were 525 hp and 400 ft/lbs torque. My stroked 351W is rated at 515 hp and 500 ft/lbs torque. My engine obviously will not do 8000+ rpm's but how would it do in a 1/4 mile drag race against the GT 350? Would it be close or will I be eating GT 350 dust? Just curious.

Given your 351w is actually a 402 is that a fair comparison? It will be interesting to watch the aftermarket if not Ford when the poke & stroke crowd try to enlarge the cu in of the new engine, bore with light rods & pistons yes, but stroking by large amounts is going to cause some head scratching!

Dumpling · #13 (**permalink**) 12-20-2015, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

Given your 351w is actually a 402 is that a fair comparison? It will be interesting to watch the aftermarket if not Ford when the poke & stroke crowd try to enlarge the cu in of the new engine, bore with light rods & pistons yes, but stroking by large amounts is going to cause some head scratching!

GT 350 engine is a spraybore block...there won't be any boring going on there.

Snake2998 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-22-2015, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWilly

My stroked 351W is rated at 515 hp and 500 ft/lbs torque. My engine obviously will not do 8000+ rpm's but how would it do in a 1/4 mile drag race against the GT 350? Would it be close or will I be eating GT 350 dust? Just curious.

If the GT350 is geared for the higher revs - should be able to be some 30% shorter diff ratio then it will eat you, all other things being equal - assuming you shift at 6000RPM and the GT350 at 8000RPM

olddog · #15 (**permalink**) 12-20-2015, 09:04 AM

http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2015/1...2_16-26-27.jpg

Here is the dyno. I do not think 300 lb-ft at 2000 rpm is all that bad. Granted that is 142 less than the peak, so it is far from flat. However from 3000 rpm up it is fairly flat. Most builders will not dyno down to 2000 rpm and you rarely see those numbers.

PS: This is from an article Twobjshelbys provided the link to above. I believe this was an independent test, not Ford data. Also note that it stated headers were used. Likely no belts.

Jac Mac · #16 (**permalink**) 12-20-2015, 07:07 PM

Never say never... I remember posing the question in ~1976/7 to the guys at SVO- could a 400 Cleveland crank be made to fit a 351w block, they said ,no never! Few years later I had built three of them. There is probably some young enthusiastic engineer making up some casting patterns for a 'bigger' version of this new engine as we think about this.