1965 Daytona For Sale

[MesaMaui]

It's on E-bay now

Shelby 1965 FFR Daytona Coupe Race Car Street Legal CA SB100 | eBay


Maui

[Ron61]

It does have some good things and a couple that I wouldn't care for. Not a bad price as of yet though.

Ron

[750hp]

Sounds brilliant!

[strictlypersonl]

It drives me crazy that people are still injecting "Shelby" into their descriptions. It is a violation of Copyright and just aching for a lawsuit. We went through this before with "Cobra" (Hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees), which is why you won't find that word on any site describing their replica.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

It drives me crazy that people are still injecting "Shelby" into their descriptions. It is a violation of Copyright and just aching for a lawsuit. We went through this before with "Cobra" (Hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees), which is why you won't find that word on any site describing their replica.

I am not sure how practical it is for Shelby to go after every individual listing a one time replica for sale on places like eBay, but we know they went after all of the manufacturers who set up companies to make replicas.

[66gtk]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

It drives me crazy that people are still injecting "Shelby" into their descriptions. It is a violation of Copyright and just aching for a lawsuit. We went through this before with "Cobra" (Hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees), which is why you won't find that word on any site describing their replica.

At this point, it's the only practical way to get your ad found among the sea of cars on ebay (:

When I listed my car, I used E.R.A. 427 Cobra and I couldn't even find my own ad (: Even "ERA" would have been an easier find. I don't like it either, but...

[mrmustang]

Am I the only one who believes the seller is doing a disservice with the poor photographs and the lack of a really detailed description?


Bill S

[olddog]

Poor photo's and a short vague description is a great strategy for the seller, who has something to hide. He wants you to believe it is more than it is, but he does not want any documentation that you can use against him after the sale. Makes perfect sense to me.

[twin turbo]

That looks like Tom Coon's Coupe that sold on EBay for 40k last winter.

[strictlypersonl]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I am not sure how practical it is for Shelby to go after every individual listing a one time replica for sale on places like eBay, but we know they went after all of the manufacturers who set up companies to make replicas.

If you limit your description to "Cobra replica", I suspect that you won't irritate the lawyers at Shelby too much, since the Cobra name is also shared with Ford. As a manufacturer, we have to be more careful because we could violate (and set) a legal precedent.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

It drives me crazy that people are still injecting "Shelby" into their descriptions. It is a violation of Copyright and just aching for a lawsuit.

I respect that it drives you crazy. However, I don't understand why. Because what you wrote above is not a legally accurate statement.

The word/name "Shelby" by itself, is not owned by anybody. Only when it is applied to a product or service. And that has nothing to do with Copyright.

"Copyrights do not protect ideas, procedures, processes, systems, methods of operation, concepts, principles, or discoveries: they only protect physical representations. 17 U.S.C. § 102(b). Anything unrecorded is not copyrightable"

-Source of the above quote: Copyright Basics

It is 100% true that if a person were selling their car as a "Shelby Cobra" that they would be opening the door to Trademark (not copyright) infringement (Once by SAI for using the "Shelby" name, and once by Ford for using the "Cobra" name in description of their car)...

But using the terms "Cobra" and "Shelby" as generic terms within classified advertisements does not violate Copyright law.

Now, using an official Shelby (or Ford) advertising publication in your ad (For example: If you embedded an image of the cover or pages from a Shelby American Brochure), then this would be a legal infringement, and a violation of Copyright law.

Ditto if you posted picture(s) within your ad of a Shelby Continuation car (or of an original 65 Shelby Mustang), instead of posting pictures of the actual replica car that you are selling, then this would be considered as legal Trademark infringement.

To prove Trademark infringement to a judge, the litigating Plaintiff/owner of the Trademark in question has to prove to the court that the Defendant willingly, knowingly, and deliberately used the Trademarked term to describe their product as something that it is not...

"The standard is "likelihood of confusion." To be more specific, the use of a trademark in connection with the sale of a good constitutes infringement if it is likely to cause consumer confusion as to the source of those goods or as to the sponsorship or approval of such goods."

Source of the above quote: https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metasc...omain/tm.htm#7

And so- When the term "replica" is used in immediate prefix (or suffix) to any commercially trademarked term, no legal infringement is implied. There have been hundreds of court cases which have solidified this legal precedent.

The term "replica" is a legally valid, verified, and trusted term for preemptively clearing the seller of any intent to create purposeful "consumer confusion"; and as long as the seller doesn't say "This kit car was personally signed, endorsed, or otherwise approved" by Carrol Shelby, then they don't have to worry about Trademark Sponsorship violations, either.

(You hear that, all you Superformance sellers, and all you guys with signed glovebox doors...? It might be best just to include an image of the signed glovebox in your ad, but don't mention a word about it in the written body of your ad.- Just my humble opinion )

Carrol Shelby's signature anywhere on your car, is not a legal endorsement of your car by Shelby American, inc.

And so - When a person publicly offers a replica of a Shelby Cobra for sale, it is no different (and no less legal) than offering Chinese replicas of Rolex and Breitling watches for sale, from suitcases on street corners, all over downtown Manhattan. Trying to sell your Chinese watches as actual Rolexes, however? Yeah- You're busted.

Even the Cobra emblems that guys stick to the noses, trunks, and steering wheels of their cars, are products which are manufactured, sold, and used under license, by the owner of the trademarked "Cobra" term (Ford Motor Company)

So, if you list a car for sale as a "Shelby Cobra" then absolutely- You might get in trouble with Ford and/or Shelby.

But, if you list a car for sale as a "Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe Replica" then they would have a very hard time convincing a judge that you were deliberately trying to pass your 50k fiberglass copy off as an 8 Million dollar automobile...

[strictlypersonl]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

I respect that it drives you crazy. However, I don't understand why. ...
But, if you list a car for sale as a "Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe Replica" then they would have a very hard time convincing a judge that you were deliberately trying to pass your 50k fiberglass copy off as an 8 Million dollar automobile...

Being legal doesn't prevent a frivolous lawsuit. We've gone through this before, and "winning" a suit almost killed the entire replica industry. If you had bought a kit a couple of years ago, many hundreds of dollars of that kit cost would have gone into legal fees.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

Being legal doesn't prevent a frivolous lawsuit. We've gone through this before, and "winning" a suit almost killed the entire replica industry. If you had bought a kit a couple of years ago, many hundreds of dollars of that kit cost would have gone into legal fees.

Back when SAL/SAI was having "replica" auctions terminated on Ebay (at the height of the lawsuits) for using the words "Shelby", "427SC", or "Cobra", I had a good friend of mine write a successful disclaimer, very similar to what the various cobra forums use today. Stopped my auctions from being removed at that time. Sometimes it's all about the verbiage


Bill S.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Sometimes it's all about the verbiage

Not sometimes...

When you are dealing with Lawyers and Judges, it is always all about the verbiage.

"Law" is nothing more than written descriptions of accepted (and acceptable) societal conventions. Nothing more.

And it does serve a very important purpose -

However, and perhaps unfortunately for some of you die-hard "The only Cobras are the ones made by Shelby American" guys, I'm going to drop a truth-bomb on all of you...

The term "Cobra" has morphed into the same mythical, mystical realm of interpretation already occupied by another very popular American icon: The Jeep.

The term "Jeep" was originated by soldiers as a euphemism to describe the Willy's GP (General Purpose) vehicle, and it's visually identical twin: the Ford GPW (Willys contracted Ford to build Jeeps during WWII when Willys couldn't keep up with demand)

Now, fast forward 70 years to today, and go to a local 4x4 and off-road show. - How many "Jeeps" are actually there? And how happy are the owners of these extremely few, perfectly restored, Olive Drab WWII icons, as they find themselves lost in an ocean of vehicles which are all referred to as "Jeeps"...?

I'm talking CJ5's, CJ6's, CJ7's, Wranglers, Scramblers, Wagoneers, Cherokees, Grand Cherokees, Toyota FJ40 LandCruisers, Nissan Patrols, Land Rover Defenders, Suzuki Samuris, M151 Mutts...etc

To the world at large, They're all Jeeps...

So, in popular terms (but perhaps not in legal terms) "Cobra" is simply a word that describes a vehicle of a specific shape and configuration... Exactly like the term "Jeep" does.

for the past 25 years, restoring old 4x4's has been one of my other hobbies. Back in the 90's when Autotrader was the number one publication for selling vehicles, any time I had a Toyota FJ40 or a Nissan Patrol to sell, I would ALWAYS have Autotrader magazine list my ad in the Jeep section, never in the Toyota or Nissan sections. This was no-brainer - Anyone looking for a short wheelbase, topless 4x4 with removable doors was always going to go to the Jeep section first, and I wanted my ads seen by those buyers.

So yeah - when people list a Cobra for sale on Ebay, they list it in the Shelby section, because their vehicle is more like a Shelby Cobra than it is anything else... Again- it's a no brainer.... And as long as they correctly state what their vehicle is (fake, replica, etc) and don't try to pass it off as something it's not, then what's the harm about where they place their ad?

Oh, and on the topic of "passing a car off as something it's not" - It is a very popular practice I've noticed that a lot of 289 guys rivet the "Manufactured by Shelby American, inc" placard to the dash of their cars, Just like the original 289 cars had it. Now THIS particular practice, I do agree 100%, is dubious, and could provide grounds for legal Trademark infringement.

I mean, if the car wasn't manufactured by Shelby American, I don't think there should be any markings on it suggesting that it was...

Sometimes "authenticity" in your replica needs to take a back seat to physical (and legal) accuracy... That's just my personal opinion.

[Antny]

What's with all the legal crap highjacking this thread? Sheesh!

Back to what matters: this looks like a very cool car! Must be a hoot to thrash around the track!! It's on my bucket list...