Tesla-Powered Cobra Racer

[olddog]

The following is assuming 100% efficiency, for simplicity.

Ok let's assume it takes about 15 KwH to move a light car 75 miles - I'm being generous.

The goal is a 600 mile range.

600 mile / 75 miles * 15 KwH = 120 KwH

Recharge in 30 minutes or 0.5 hr.

Charging rate is 120 KwH / 1/2 H = 240 Kw.

Normal house hold power in America is single phase 240 volts.

W = E * I

240,000 W / 240 volts = 1000 amp.

So to charge your battery in 30 minutes with the most common power in this country, you need a 240 volt 1000 amp charger.

Most people have 200 amp service or less. Hmm.

Ok let's go to 480 volt 3 phase power.

1000 amp / 2 / 1.73 (square root of 3 for 3 phase)= 166.7 amp.

Now let's get real, a typical gas station has a dozen pumps. Let's say I can fill a gasoline car in 5 minutes and an electric takes 30 minutes. So to handle the same volume of cars, I need to be able to charge 6 times as many electric cars. So I need to be able to charge 72 cars, at a time, to handle the same volume of electric cars as gasoline cars. So, I need to build a 12000 amp 480 volt 3 phase electrical station.

Clearly I need to invest well over a million dollars to build this charging station. Any buisnes man wants a 3 year return on investment. So how much of a premium are you willing to pay me above the cost of electricity to make it worth my time to invest in this charging station you want some one to build for you???? And we would need millions of these charging stations. The power grid will need to be more than doubled and the power plants too.

Today we pay about a 65 cent tax on a gallon of gasoline to support highways and bridges. Electric cars have gotten a free ride. The cost to maintain this infrastructure is not going to go away and the Electric cars will have to pay that as well. So add 2 or 3 cents per mile for the highway up keep.

I am not closed minded, at all. I have fact checked the wild blue sky assumptions from the people who closed minded believe this is the way of the future. On what facts do these people believe we will be able to charge a battery in 5 min or 30 min or an hour?
Based on what? What is the advantage to making this change? In the end we still have to generate the power. It is not a clean energy solution.

The technology of electric cars has existed almost as long as the internal combustion engine. It is not new. What irritates me is people want to use my tax dollars to prop up and make viable a technology that no one will invest in on their own.

[Buzz]

I'm well aware of the logistics involved Dan and I have no quarrel with your calculations, but one of the beautiful things about EV's is that the vast majority of recharging can be done overnight at home. Gas powered vehicles cannot be refilled at home, hence the volume of traffic at gas stations. The only time EV owners need a recharge on the road is when the journey exceeds round trip range. Long trips just need to be planned around recharge stops. Hell - maybe there'll be rest stop type places that will offer meals and relaxation facilities to pass the time.

Use the gas car for longer trips - whatever. I'm not trying to be the champion of EV's taking over the world - I just like the phenomenal performance potential and the amazing things the cars will be able to do. If they end up being specialty or niche vehicles, then fine; but I do know one thing for sure - they offer supercar level performance, comfort, acceleration and speed at prices within the reach of normal people.

I'm excited as hell to see how the Tesla roadster will perform in the real world, and even if it falls a bit short of the range and recharging claims being made now - it will certainly be one of the fastest production cars of all time. Only a 300 or 400 mile range? With that kind of performance, who the heck cares?

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Buzz

I'm well aware of the logistics involved Dan and I have no quarrel with your calculations, but one of the beautiful things about EV's is that the vast majority of recharging can be done overnight at home. Gas powered vehicles cannot be refilled at home, hence the volume of traffic at gas stations. The only time EV owners need a recharge on the road is when the journey exceeds round trip range. Long trips just need to be planned around recharge stops. Hell - maybe there'll be rest stop type places that will offer meals and relaxation facilities to pass the time.

Use the gas car for longer trips - whatever. I'm not trying to be the champion of EV's taking over the world - I just like the phenomenal performance potential and the amazing things the cars will be able to do. If they end up being specialty or niche vehicles, then fine; but I do know one thing for sure - they offer supercar level performance, comfort, acceleration and speed at prices within the reach of normal people.

I'm excited as hell to see how the Tesla roadster will perform in the real world, and even if it falls a bit short of the range and recharging claims being made now - it will certainly be one of the fastest production cars of all time. Only a 300 or 400 mile range? With that kind of performance, who the heck cares?

I have no problem with an electric car, per say. The performance is pretty cut and dry. An electric motor is well known. Longevity is interesting. I can show you motors that have been running 24/7/365 for 30 years. They are only shut off every 5 years, when we take the plant down for electrical PM. There are many advantages to electric motors. Some of the problems is weight and cost.

Personally I believe with today's technology the best car would have a small power generation diesel (or gasoline) that only generates electricity. Motors would run the wheels. Batteries would supplement the high instantaneous power needs. It would regenerate as much power as possible. It would not need nearly as much battery, as a pure electric. None of the hybrids are a true electric car with its own power generator, as I am suggesting. It does not need a new infrastructure to support it. This could work today. It too would be expensive like the electric cars.

This could be done quickly and reduce considerably the need to burn fuel. For pure political reasons (internal combustion is bad) we have chosen to go for something that isn't going to happen anytime soon, if ever. When the half step, allows you to perfect over time a pure electric car, if that is ever needed. Talk about closed minded.

Oh buy the way, even if you charge them slowly over night every day, the power grid cannot handle it.

[Buzz]

I actually like the idea of a small auxiliary diesel powerplant - either for charging or maintaining highway cruise.

[EM-0785]

My two bits…

With a ‘societal goal’ of zero emissions, such developments may well result in a combination of battery powered electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell powered electric vehicles. In either case the fuel source to generate electric/battery power is non-petroleum with plug in electric and fast fill hydrogen distribution, both with as much self/re-gen as achievable.

I’ve watched this with interest for a few decades. From the early days of Ballard Company (Ballard Power) and their fuel cell developments, including agreements with GM, Daimler, Ford, etc. Back then I recall seeing GM (CEO I believe) publicly announce to the effect that GM passenger vehicles would be on an all fuel cell platform within 10 years, using a common chassis design with interchangeable bodies.

They then seemed to go silent on the topic, perhaps amid infrastructure logistics and public safety perceptions, as electricity seemed to gain initial market viability/popularity. The electric car development is likely a necessary step/component in the longer-term movement toward zero emissions including hydrogen.

I’ll likely always enjoy my Cobra most, and as long as I can, even as I partake in current in use technologies. When people look concerned over my old petrol Cobra, I tell them both tongue in cheek and in all seriousness proudly that we “manage my carbon footprint”!

That’s right, we produce way less emissions than most, and have more fun doing it, including a Cobra, that’s our hybrid approach! That is, given our combination of lower emission high mileage main drivers and our less driven, fire-breathing Cobra!

They stand there pensive, looking like I’ve just rocked their world. Our low emission commitment in place gives some cred there, they have no further comeback, those carbon wasters, go figure! As I belch black smoke trying to tune my choke (I’m still ahead!). ☺

We just use our gas or hybrid vehicle, or a rental, not the full electrics, for longer planned trips. The low-e vehicles work well for daily around town use and commutes throughout the year.

Brent

(PS: All that said, petroleum fuels for autos will likely be around for some time and have their moments and development applications. Particularly in the near term as I believe there's a focus now on higher octane being less pollutive and making a come back, potential increased drilling in AK for availiability, etc. It will certainly be intersting to see the developments in auto fuel sources over time).

[olddog]

The hydrogen fuel cell was once the holy grail that was just around the corner and it was going to make electric cars the future. It was touted much like the miracle battery is just around the corner from today.

Two things killed the hydrogen fuel cell. One, it is a bomb. Two, hydrogen does not appear in nature here on earth, it always has other molecules attached, when you find it. The energy required to split it away from the other atoms is more than the energy derived from it. Thus the doubling of the power generation is required to make it. Why bother, when you can just charge a battery?

[Bartruff1]

The three most popular vehicles in America are PU trucks....Ford, Chev/GMC and Dodge....our family owns 4 new car dealerships and by far the most sought after vehicles are PUs and SUVs.....

There are about 16,000,000 new cars being built in America and less than 1% are battery powered...

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

The three most popular vehicles in America are PU trucks....Ford, Chev/GMC and Dodge....our family owns 4 new car dealerships and by far the most sought after vehicles are PUs and SUVs.....

There are about 16,000,000 new cars being built in America and less than 1% are battery powered...

Sooo...the sky isn't falling after all! Everyone can relax now

Merry Christmas all!