"Carroll Shelby Speaks Out" Article

[REAL 1]

Jamo has a point.

I'm not sure what it is. But he has one.



I honestly feel that much of his continued bitterness stems from his feeling that the replica companies told him to @#$% off when he asked for a licensing fee which was to be donated to the heart fund while they made and continue to make millions from copying his car. I can understand why he may feel the way he does.

But I would like to see us and him move on from the issue now that the courts have decided the trade dress issue and let by gones be by gones.

I would also like to add that for those that feel the "extra" $20k for a Shelby is not worth just buying the "name" you are buying much more than just a "name".

Aside from buying a REAL Cobra with the lineage and pedigree of a Shelby and product of SAI you are buying a car that was more expensive to manufacture than an ERA or SPF. The frames and chasis are all to original speicfications with the bird cage as are the suspension parts. EVERY part of the CSX was made for THE CSX. It does not borrow from a donor car or use Mustang or Thunderbird components which cuts manufacture costs dramatically.

So in the end you are getting much more than just a name. You are getting a Cobra with the parts of a Cobra not a look a like with Thunderbird suspension.

I'm just tired of hearing guys say all your are getting for the premium is the "name". Ain't true.




Evan.

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by REAL 1


Jamo has a point.

I'm not sure what it is. But he has one.



I honestly feel that much of his continued bitterness stems from his feeling that the replica companies told him to @#$% off when he asked for a licensing fee which was to be donated to the heart fund while they made and continue to make millions from copying his car. I can understand why he may feel the way he does.

But I would like to see us and him move on from the issue now that the courts have decided the trade dress issue and let by gones be by gones.

I would also like to add that for those that feel the "extra" $20k for a Shelby is not worth just buying the "name" you are buying much more than just a "name".

Aside from buying a REAL Cobra with the lineage and pedigree of a Shelby and product of SAI you are buying a car that was more expensive to manufacture than an ERA or SPF. The frames and chasis are all to original speicfications with the bird cage as are the suspension parts. EVERY part of the CSX was made for THE CSX. It does not borrow from a donor car or use Mustang or Thunderbird components which cuts manufacture costs dramatically.

So in the end you are getting much more than just a name. You are getting a Cobra with the parts of a Cobra not a look a like with Thunderbird suspension.

I'm just tired of hearing guys say all your are getting for the premium is the "name". Ain't true.




Evan.

Evan, I agree that CS has a reason to be mad, he should be mad at himself for not protecting his intelectual(pardon the spelling, can't find the dictionary) property.
As for the 20K premium for the Real Shelby(remember, I am one of the few that agree a CSX 4000 series is a real Cobra), I for one am not refering to a premium over the Superformance(60k ?), I'm refering to the premium over the Kirkham.
What is the difference between the Kirkham replica and the CSX 4000 series Cobra? In roller form is there any real difference in components(I'm under the impression that they are identical)? What is the difference in price(I have always seen the 20k # thrown around, though I don't know the actual #)?

[Richard Hudgins]

Hi Folks,

I really hate to enter into this discussion, but there are some points that need to be brought to light about the licensing bit.

In the early 90's, I designed a 90 inch car for a little company in Oklahoma. They were currently building a standard type reproduction unit (Meaning Mustang 2 front suspension and 8.8 rear end.) They were doing quite well and production was steady and the car was a nice piece overall.

They built the 90 inch car and won “Best engineering” award at the Run & Gun held at Firebird in the early 90’s. They were a class operation.

They contacted Mr. Shelby's organization about the licensing deal and really thought that it might help the cause for his charity and 1k on top was livable in the then current marketplace, particularly with the 1k being for a charity, therefore tax deductible outside of a normal cost basis. (Also, it would have certainly been good for their business to have his signature on the car.)

Well, the deal was a bit different then what the press spoke of.

1. The deal was with Shelby Licensing Inc. (Or something close), not CS or his heart fund.

2. There was nothing in the proposal that said or inferred that the 1k was to go to the Charity. Matter of fact, the gentleman running this place said that the distribution of funds was solely up to him and Mr. Shelby’s charity had nothing to do with it.

3. To qualify for the licensing deal, you had to put up 50k per annum "up front" and this would be credited against your production on an annual basis. (The statement from this gentleman was “If you cannot put up this amount of money, then you would not be a manufacturer that we could endorse.)

4. If you did not build 50 cars you still spend 50K per year. The deal had to be renewed each year and the deposit of 50k was due immediately at the end of each year.

5. If you built more than 50 cars per year, the price went to 1.5k per car and you had to pay them up front once again to maintain the licensing agreement. (Based on the previous years production)

6. What you got in this licensing deal was that they would not sue you for building the reproduction of the Cobra. There was no endorsement, no plagues, no press, nothing other than the assurance that they would not sue you. You could stay in business, that’s all.


Well folks, this little company did not go for the licensing deal. It was just a bit too much money for them to put up. They are now out of business. (Due to the owner developing lung cancer from constant exposure to the fiberglass operation and therein dying.) Maybe the heirs would have been able to carry on if they had of paid for the CS licensing deal. Who knows?

Now, the bottom line here is that not one piece of communication was from CS. It was all from others who represented him. I do not feel that he would have wished nor endorsed these draconian business practices. However, it was all done in his name and the deals fell apart due to greed and avarice of others.

I feel the industry was ready to pay homage, but I guess that his people were not willing to allow for deals that would have allowed the industry to stay in business.

[decooney]

Richard,

interesting history and story about someone who tried to work a deal back then. Its too bad the ol' man didn't just take the 1K per car as being enough of a royalty vs. asking for an additional 50k/yr too.

It just goes to show you, greed will come back and bite you in the a$$.

[REAL 1]

Well its true. There always is more than one side to the storey. Wish it was worked out. But it wasn't and litigation followed. Trying to figure out who was wrong or who was right won't help. Litigation now resolved. Thats now in the past.

CS is obviously still bitter. Replica owners still bitter.

Maybe the future will allow us to forget the bad stuff and move on. Wish CS would let it go too. Sigh...

Southernfriedcj: There is really no difference between the CSX and Kirkham. On the CSX's Shelby uses SAI suspension components while on the Kirkham, Kirkham supplies their own components. Pretty much identical stuff. Pretty much like the way the AC was the same car as the Shelby after it left SAI back in the 60's. No real difference except for name ie..AC Cobra v. Shelby Cobra.

As to cost of a Kirkham I'm sure Jamo can speak more accurately as to this. I would guesstamate the finished cost of a well appointed Kirkham with 427SO has to be in the range of $95k including labor. A comparable Shelby would probably be in the $115k to $120k range.

I see the Kirkham as todays AC vis-a-vis SAI.

So you do pay more for a Shelby Cobra. No question. Shelby's have always demanded a premium even when compared to AC's.

Would you pay more for an original Shelby Cobra over an original AC Cobra? Most would. How much more is a personal call.

Would you pay more for a new Shelby Cobra over a Kirkham? I think most would. How much more is a personal call.

[Jamo]

Evan

Are you trying to get my ass divorced? I know that's your area of the law--but that's a sh!ty way of drumming up business!!!!

Do you have a California license?



Cheerleader

Honey, in case you're reading this, Evan is prone to exaggeration by at least $50,000 or so--honest honey.

[Turk]

I think those numbers are waaay off! Too high!


TURK
The budget minded Gashole!
I agree with Jamo, they are about $50,000 too high.

[Jamo]

That's right, you married a white chick too.

[Dan Semko]

Cheerleader,
Jamo is embellishing the truth once again and because he's a Gashole I feel obligated to bail him out here, so since he's stated that Evan is exaggerating by at least $50k, I'm going to forward you a check, for that amount when the car is completed and save you the headaches. Jamo really doesn't want to part with his Butler anyway and we'd be doing this for his own good and our sanity. Turk has reaffirmed what Jamo stated and we KNOW that we can believe the Mediterranean Love God!

[Jamo]

Dano

You can't run fast enough! Next time we meet, bring your sneakers!!!!!

[Dan Semko]

Bet me Big Guy,
I have plenty of practice being married to a Greek! I can duck and weave better than the old Ali too,
Don't forget, my cranium is aerodynamically suited for speed !

[Cheerleader]

Dear Dan

Make that a certified check for $55,000 and you have a deal. Let's see the big guy squirm. Is Evan any good at what he does?

Mrs. Jamo

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by Cheerleader


Dear Dan

Make that a certified check for $55,000 and you have a deal. Let's see the big guy squirm. Is Evan any good at what he does?

Mrs. Jamo

Mrs. Jamo, as I feel responsible for the prices being posted I will wire you the 55k Jamo spent plus an extra 1k as a fair profit for putting up with Jamo. Go buy yourself something nice(like a weekend away from Jamo ).

Thanks, Southernfriedgentleman

Edit: please reply soon so I can call the Kirkhams and have the car set up like Evan's.

[Dan Semko]

Dear Mrs. Jamo,
Consider it a done deal. When the car rolls off the transport with the engine installed, please call me and we'll arrange the transfer when Jamo is visiting Bony or in L.A.
Would you like the funds to be wired to your account in the Grand Caymans?

I'm not sure about Evans expertise. I've met the guy personally and he struck me as more of the Maytag Repair Man type than a true counselor. His perception of "REALity" is somewhat distorted but I do have a close friend that is a personal friend with Dershowitz!

[Jamo]

Southernchickensh!t and Dano

I suggest you make sure your affairs are in order. Miserable buzzards picking over my remains...

Now my dearly beloved one is talking kitchen remodel. Evan's gonna get a piece of my foot as well.

[Dan Semko]

Jamo,
For $55k she's going to have a beautiful kitchen. When can I expect the transport to arrive? Way to go Cheerleader, that should teach that Armenian Gashole not to be so tight at Christmas!
Jamo, with all of the dental remodeling in progress, you should be happy that the Cheerleader is being so thrifty!

[Jamo]

*()(**&&Y^T%$$#$%%^%^&&*()((*&^$#@@!!!#$#$$%%^^&

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by Dan Semko


Jamo,
For $55k she's going to have a beautiful kitchen.

55k wouldn't even remodel the kitchen in my single wide. A real1 will go about 100-120k!

[REAL 1]

You guys are sooo lost.

Jamo: Too late. The misses already wired me the retainer. I'm being admitted Pro Hoc so don't look now.

Oh. And that Kirkham...the Maytag repairman (thats me) already obtained temporary restraints against any "unwanted" dissapation of assets. Our demands will be reasoable, 75% of everything including the new acqusition. Of course you can choose (should we decide to allow it) to keep the "new acquisition" for a $45,000 credit against the rest of the assets since this is "all you paid for it"...right????.

Maybe she'll just keep it since she claims she will look better in the car than you anyway.

Boy those Maytag repair guys can be a B!tch.


Oh. Sorry. I forgot. The Butlers to be sold to the highest bidder. I suggest that in its present condition we sell it for parts. It should bring more that way.

Any takers???

Of course once the asset issue is resolved we need to discuss the alimony issue.

[bmalone]

How many times have I said it: do all the remodeling first, then get the car!