The level of risk is determined by the person behind the wheel. Track time is extremely safe. I spun out at Hallet on Friday going into a corner at about 80mph just tried to get into the gas a little to quick. No harm to the Cobra or anyone else and there were 22 other Cobras and Mustangs on the track at the time, (most were behind me-HA!).

All kidding aside I think track time is very important to everyone that drives one of these hot rods. It is important for us to know how these performance cars react under different situations eg: cornering, speed, braking, and a spinout if you will. Track time is NOT fender banging unless you are driving in the Vintage class. If it was the tracks would not let you drive with just a proper helmet (I opt for a little more protection myself).

Just my opinion and not intended offend anyone.


Clois

Really?
 

Yes I know that no roll bar will keep me out of open track events. Guess I should have been more clear. I am not interested in driving it on the course in a non-sanctioned event that would permit it. Like me just going down there and renting the track.

"No wheel to wheel in open track events." I must be thinking of 'real' racing:LOL:

If the track where for me, I would be on it. Doesn't this all seem just so obvious?;)

I am intrigued about the passing limitations. This must be some sort of NASA thing, yes? No? Any form of racing that I have been involved with, must of been that real racing thing again, this did not happen. That would certainly make it more appealing to me.

Still, ideally I would have two cars, my racer and my cruiser. I would really enjoy doing some events such as what NASA sounds like it offers. But it just is not happening now!

Rick

Just my 2 cents worth. Steve is very correct about racing being used to cover to many things. I have my entry form for Thunderhill and the Green Flag Driving Association here looking at it. They have 3 levels of driving. Yellow. red, and green. Yellow is for novices and anyone else who doesn't want to get into real hard driving and just wants to have a good time. All levels are very safety concerned and there is no passing in corners, trying to out brake anyone and so on. Passing is on straights only and can be done by the point by method or if your car is faster and you can do so before the next corner. Tech inspection is for major things such as tires, brakes and lap belts in the two lower classes. You, as the owner are responsible for the rest of the car being safe. They do now require Snell 95 rated helmets or above and Nomex driving gloves. They encourage roll bars, fuel cells,and drivers suits but don't demand them as this is to keep it so the people with their street cars can have some safe fun and not have to spend a ton of money meeting racing standards. Also a fire extinguisher is required. They call themselves a driving association because they do not race and don't want to be confused with the real racing groups. They also have trained drivers who will instruct and help new people if they wish. This post is not intended to add any fuel to the bickering over what happened in Ohio. I wasn't there and didn't see any of it so I can't talk about what went on there with any real knowedge. I have just always felt that speed contests should be on a track or safe place like the CHP parking lot. :LOL:

Ron :JEKYLHYDE **) %/

One thing I've picked up from this string is the superiority complex a few have developed from driving a Cobra around a road course and put down others who enjoy their Cobras on the street, autoX or whatever, all with more or less skill, but all having a great time. What got my attention was the insuation that Fling attendees are wanabee racers.

As for me, I enjoyed the relaxed time in London with a short high-powered blast up thru 2nd gear, but nothing more. As for being a wanabee racer, I've had my time in the sun. All started in the late '50s driving a supermodified on the dirt, then on to go-karts, all in my teens. After college, it was on to FoMoCo and involvement at KarKraft in T/A and CanAm Series, then the IMSA Series and Indy Cars in my spare time. This got me into designing and building LM stock cars, ProStock cars and even a Class 7 offroad truck which missed winning Baja by 12 seconds first time out. I've been over 221 mph at the Salt Flats, setting a land speed record at a tick over 217 mph. I say this not to boast, but to emphasis that you don't have to play macho racer to have fun and enjoy your Cobra in a relaxed way. Experience levels don't matter.

Bottom line is, it seems like a few overblown egos wearing blinders make judgements about others that are off base. Why not put energy into enjoying each of our Cobras in our own ways without creating hard feelings by saying things using baseless presumptions? If speed is involved, just be safe doing it!

Boy, that took a lot of energy.

:JEKYLHYDE

As usual, well said Tom..

As for me, It was all I could do to scrap enough dough to build a FFR... I cannot afford to wreck it or blow it up.. but I do have a lot of fun with it... I am married to a wonderful wife.... that really just would not be wild about me blowing all my money on fixing up wrecked cars and such...
I am a waxer... no question.. but I still like all the racers......
And I have a Gashole hat to..... and I like Crankoids to...
Man, what a freak I am..........

For me there is no superiority complex. There is room for everyone and I can polish with the best of them and I am a pretty good driver. I wish my schedule would have permitted me to be in London. I love to do burnouts. I love to cruise. I will be there next year if the Tulsa event is not on the same weekend.

DVSF III is a special event and I support it and its cause all the way. Ed, Tom, and all the others have done a marvelous job and few of us can really imagine the time it takes to put something like DVSF III together. However, a thread was started asking for suggestions for next year, Track time would a plus for me.

Clois

No egos here. The egos are the guys on the street that have no idea what they are driving. I am referring to the showing off, the dangerous driving, the accidents AND THE FACT THAT FEW COMPANIES WANT TO INSURE COBRAS. This goes beyond the Fling. Just read about a couple of deaths and accidents that were totally uneccessary.

Any ego you bring to the track is eaten up by some guy in a Miata that knows how to drive. Egos get deflated quickly.

To quote Coyled on another forum:

"And we all wonder why cobras are harder and harder to insure? This street exhibition stuff is about getting an ego stroke from the 100's of people at the fling. On the track, as we all know that have been on the track, the instructors and experienced track guys will cram your ego right up your ass. You find out real fast, that you aren't the best driver, have a lot to learn, and worst of all, your cobra is not as fast as you think it is. Its about ego which open tracking would crush, thats the real reason the street guys won't do it. But, it is a charity event and if they hold it at mid-ohio next year, I would make the trip as long as I could draft behind mcfez and mccranky on the track. The newbie street group would be real interesting would't it?"

I agree that you don't have to play macho racer to enjoy your Cobra. However, you should learn it's limitations and nuances. Learn how to drive it. I refer to some that do not "enjoy their Cobra in a relaxed way." The way you learn how to drive it is to get some instructions and take it out in an environment where you can push its limitations...and yours.

By the way, I've never seen or read anyone, myself included, who have been critical of autocross.

Roscoe

Insurance issue
 

My insurance through Dan Hardimann wouldn't pay if I crashed at Mid-Ohio. I wonder if it would pay if I crashed at the airport or on Main Street doing street racing in London????:confused:

"Crisis occurs when Men in Cobra's get excited". -James Burbler:)

Don't have any problem with what you say, Roscoe. The major difference between losing it on the track versus the street is you end in a sand pit, fence or another car versus a telephone pole, innocent bystander or who knows what. Street activities must be under tighter controls before the fact, not after something really bad happens at one of our events.

We all know rules, laws and regulations are made for those who abuse their freedoms as opposed to those who excercise their responsibilities. My mother would be proud to here me say that. I sure went through enough tires on the family car before they got wise to me, thus the rules were applied harshly to my driving priveledges.

By the way, I would enjoy myself sitting in my folding chair under the trees at London answering questions about my Cobra as much as I would rounding the Carousel at Mid Ohio at 110% with my left front fender stuck inside another's door while passing. Those were the good old days, trading paint at Mid Ohio.

Keep it safe, but have fun.

Roscoe,
Maybe there IS some validity to the old adage about "killing the messenger";)
I don't see anyone criticizing any foolish moves that were displayed on the track, so what's the point to kicking up sand
if you're not even in the sandbox? Those responsible for the events at the Fling have addressed the issues.

I'm going to disagree with you here. Experience DOES count. There is a huge difference between an experienced guy taking a person around the track at 140MPH and a novice regular driver taking a person around at 100MPH.

The stories I am reading about from the Fling suggest that many of the people think their skill levels are up to the task of being safe. In reality, they lack the experience to make an informed decision as to safety. Case in point: the more experience guys seem to get on the track the less they feel the need to show off on the street. Experience = wisdom and there is no shortcut.

Look, I believe in personal responsibility. If you and your ego want to kill yourselves with a high speed run into a telephone pole, well, I'm not going to stop you. But that isn't what we are talking about here - we've talking about innocent people on the street and passengers. For the most part, we're talking about cars that are basically unsafe combined with inexperienced (unsafe) drivers performing unsafe stunts on public (unsafe) streets.

This isn't unique to our little family: nearly every high performance car group I hang out with has some sort of variation. Ricers go street racing. Cobras go off the line. Ferraris and Vipers like high speed. They're all equally stupid - and equally popular. But let's not pretend that each driver, road, and car are the same.

Want to see a bunch of morons, er, guys, who overestimated their experience levels? Try http://www.wreckedexotics.com Be forewarned: there are pictures of decapitated bodies. In some cases, you can even see the remains of innocent victims.

As a group, we'll do ourselves a favor if we'll quit celebrating egos and instead put peer pressure on those who make us look unsafe by association.

Re: Insurance issue
 

That's an easy one. Don't tell 'em.

"I don't really know what happened Mr. Insurance Man. The car that was in front of me on the highway on-ramp was blowing blue smoke real bad, and must have been putting down some oil or something. There was also a dumptruck up there with a loose gate, and I think he was spreading sand all over the road. I was just minding my own business at a leisurly pace, and all of a sudden, round and round we went...."

Re: Re: Insurance issue
 

...."and I ended up upside down on the tarmac at the airport". HeHe:D

Re: Re: Re: Insurance issue
 

I like you Brett. You sound like an honest guy. Me on the other hand, well, my single-accident, walk-in police report would mention nothing about an airport, open track event, autocross, burnout contest, street race, flooring-it-for-a-boob-shot, etc. It may however contain something about that ultra-rare mid-summer coating of black ice...

RD

Rick...as well... nice to say hello and meet face-to-face.

The hotels are an integral part of the weekend...:eek:

I'm reading and learning---more than you think.

DV...I think we improved II, I think we improved III, I KNOW we will..oh-well

I know this sounds stupid.. but it seems that the only folks
b!@#$ing are the ones that didn't come to the fling.. I know about 283 folks had a blast...

I'm certainly one of the 283 that had a blast! Thanks for mentioning it, Al! Was nice talking to you, and all the other fine people that make up this group. My friend, Vic Maggio came with me, now he wants a Cobra so bad he can taste it! Thanks, Dan Semko for all the good advice, was nice meeting you and Sue. Had a nice conversation with Brent, on a couple of occasions, and Finally, DV! Thanks for your help when my clutch hose split. Especially Jeff, he gave me his cellphone number after he took me back to the hotel, and gave me good directions to Jegs for parts. Was able to get up and running in short order!

Some of the shiat that gets slung around on this forum makes me shake my head.

There are some who would like to see Fling turned into a Track Event.
There were campaings for it for months. I for one objected any and all competetive events at the Fling from day one.
I think to make it all inclusive, DV and company accomondated the wishes of many.
I was not even in favor of Auto Cross.
The original Fling was about people, picnic, cookies and Jenny.

I advocate it stays that way. As long as there is any spirited driving , whether it be a burnout, a high speed run in a closed down airport or a scaled down Auto Cross, there are many who will try to turn the entire event into a all out race week.

That is what they are comfortable with, that is where they do their best work and frankly have no tolerance for anyone who want to do something else with their Cobras.

DV didn't ask me, but if he did, I would suggest the same thing I did months ago. Strip Fling of ANY Motorsports activities, and allow those coming to this event to enjoy everything else about these cars.

I believe those not in attendance should not be calling in with their wishes for what WE should do next time around..
I don't show up at your event and lay out the cones for you, now you do the same for us.

You were not there, and won't be there unless this is a racing event. It is NOT.

If it becomes one, you can be there and many won't!

So it is just a matter of trading faces.

This is the best we could do. If those of us who enjoyed the Fling don't show up, but you DO, maybe you all will make it safer and bigger and funner.

I objected to the race around the lake. My Gawd! Can you imagine the criticsm we would be listening to now, had DV and the community had gone through with it?

I objected to the Autocross, for the simple reason it splits up the groups and sends them to different places during the same time period.

I objected to drag racing, because it is much nicer for all attendees to return home as winners. Not one winner and bunch of loosers.

Hell I am not even in favor of a Best of Show or a contest of any sort to recognize the pretiest Cobra. This is no more a car show than it is a race day.

It is a gathering of many who enjoy the company of one another.

There are many racing opportunities closer to where we live. Attend those.

If you want to kick some different butt, go to Run and Gun and race against others whom you have not met before.

If you want to have fun and enjoy the other side of Cobras come to the Fling.

Like I said, I don't tell you how much pressure to run in your tires, you show the same restraint in NOT telling me how much hell we raise.

I will put up the safety record of DVSF I, II, III against any amusement park for the same number of people.

Let's face it! There are some out there, who are just plain jealous. They missed all the fun. They would love nothing more than to see to it that others do the same.

It ain't gonna happen. There will be (SHOULD) be another Spring Fling. Safer , Bigger, Funner.

You won't be there again. WE DON'T CARE!!

Now go shop for some racing slicks, while we all make plans for the next NON-RACING event.


TURK