Holy Cow Bat boy!

My right eye is twitching from reading all this re-hash!

Is it just me, or was this a nice simple idea with fairly well though out parameters when Richard first made the mistake of voicing it?

Well Rick, what ever comes of it, we're all for the original idea, which translated to me like; if you spent $1.62 on your chassis design, and another $4 bucks on suspension parts which had poor geometry to start with, and finally a few dollars more on tubing to build it that most of us use to build our jigs out of, then stay home.

:JEKYLHYDE

Stephen @ Cobra U - Dont you own me FatBoy Burger?
RE

Richard, you have a great idea here and many have even made some good suggestions. Personally I think you guys should talk to Wayne Turpin an make this a part of Run & Gun. They could make a special class for manufacturers to compete in. After all this event gets good coverage in the Mags and it can only bring more attention to our National event. Work out the formats and send out an invite to all manufacturers. They have good people at the run and gun who do a good job at tech inspection. All you need to do is set it up with the proper guide lines and I bet you will get a lot more participation from the manufacturers. Also it's centrally located which makes it good for all in the travel aspect.
I was impressed at how well R&G was run. They really went out of their way to make it a safe and fun event. The track is a good one too. It may not be a willow or a Road America but it does the job well....Think it over, I think you'll be surpised.

Hersh:)

Jay,

I agree. I think that this event could be an excellent performance comparison and a very good showcase for all manufacturers. Hell, they get to put their stuff right out there. There are no restrictions on how well cosmetically built they are, how good a paint job, how comfortable the seats are, etc etc. (This is 90% of what folks care about after all.)

As I have stated, I do not feel that there will be as large a disparity in performance as people might think.

In reality, it will probably do more for the low cost manufacturers then the "High End" folks. After all, if car "A" is only 1.5 seconds slower then car "B" and costs half as much, well what is the problem there? It would be a great marketing coup for car "A".

The only problem that I can see with the two driver thing is competition between the drivers. (You know how race drivers are, you always have to be the best. This could lead to some equipment getting broken, etc, as they attempt to wring the last bit out of the cars.) NOTE:I would think that if the drivers are pros (IE Morton, etc.) this would not be a problem.

I spec'ed the cars the way I did to keep costs low for everyone and to allow a even playing field in the powertrain.

The point was to showcase the various as manufactured standard chassis configurations.


It seems that the perception of the public is that the JBL is too trick to be involved and if JBL entered, they would be cheating by default. (The below statements are from a number of emails that I have received which state this opinion.)

You know, things said like:

"The JBL is a race car, not a Cobra."

"I think that you have a lot balls asking all the manufacturers to run against that "Funny Car" that you build."

"Take off all that trick sh*t and maybe someone else would have chance. what a fu*kwit idea."

"Why would you try to make everyone else look bad? I was interested in a JBL before you started this unfair comparision to further your sales."

Therefore,considering the above, fair is fair, JBL and myself will step out of this challenge.

After all, we do this for fun. Not for bragging rights. And most certainly not to increase sales. We have plenty to do keeping up with our race customers as it is.


Rick, Boudy, Jim, and Stephen.

Why don't you guys take this thing over. It would be a great event for Cobra University to host at Willow.

I feel that it would be very good for the various manufacturers and that it could only increase the buyers knowledge of your products and help in your marketing efforts.

Hersh,

Maybe the folks that operate the Run & Gun could do this. But I thought this event was already tied to a publication. (sponsored by in essence.) That would raise some issues with involvement by other publications and media. (You know. Ad buyer conflicts, etc.)

Screw em!
 

Richard-

No. No. No. Don't let those punk azzes who e-mailed you sway you from doing this! They are dead wrong!

As I posted in earlier, I also thought the less expensive marques had more to gain than JBL, and JBL seemed to have more to lose. But I've been more impressed by your words and your approach and your initial challenge. I personally might be slightly out of JBL's price range today, but who knows a year from now? Or two, or three?

I think you should do it. As far as I can tell your product is the yardstick. I'd think less of another "winner" if it wasn't running against a JBL (based on others' input, anyway).

You've been totally stand-up since the start of this thread. I can understand why you'd want out if it got to be a headache. Yeah, it should be fun! But, please, don't stop now!

new JBL fan,
MTrain

As an innocent bystander, I can tell you that I will do what I can to get the time off to come see this event.

Hopefully there won't be any attempts to distract or sandbag this idea in any way. Its a good thing, and there are many people that would like to see the results of a Cobra replica / chassis challenge. I bet once the dates, location, and details are confirmed, it will take on a life of its own.

C'mon guys, no more tit for tat, LETS GET READY TO RUMBALL!

:)

Richard may have too much class to list the names of the senders of those emails.

Maybe he can just tell us what kind of Cobras those people own!

Please Richard!!. Pretty please?

TURK

LET'S NOT BE RASH
 

RICHARD I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE AN INJUSTICE IF YOU WERE TO WITHDRAW FROM AN EVENT SUCH AS THIS. ALL MANUFACTURERS HAVE THE OPTION OF USING WHATEVER TECHNOLOGY IS AVAILABLE TO THEM AND EACH ONE DOES SO.

COBRA FOLKS WITH REAL CLASS WOULD NOT BE EMAILING STUFF LIKE THAT. AS I HAVE STATED IN ANOTHER POST ON ANOTHER THREAD, "BRAND LOYALTY IS ONE THING...IGNORANCE IS ANOTHER". JUST FOR CLARIFICATION OF THAT, WEBSTER DEFINES IGNORANT AS 1. SHOWING THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OR EXPERIENCE, 3. UNAWARE OF.

ON A DIFFERENT TOPIC, I JUST HAD A THOUGHT ABOUT A DRIVER. ONE THAT IS NOT TIED TO ANY COBRA MANUFACTURER. I HAVEN'T TALKED WITH HIM ABOUT IT BUT CAN IF YOU WOULD LIKE OR AGREE. I HAD THE PLEASURE OF SPENDING A WEEK WITH ROLAND LINDER, TWO TIME LEMANS WINNER THIS PAST FEBRUARY. NICE GUY AND NO ONE CAN QUESTION HIS ABILITY. HERSH MET HIM AND WATCHED HIM AND BOB BONDURANT DRIVE TOGETHER.

JUST A THOUGHT AND ANOTHER UNSOLICITED OPINION.

JAY

DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

THIS SHOULD NOT DIE!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

JAY

Let it die. JBL wins. Any manufacturer that didn't put their hand up for the challenge has been shown up for their unwillingness to compete head to head. I think there might be some future owners of Cobras wondering why their chosen manufacturer was unwilling to compare their product with their peers.

Any more questions on this forum about best handling chassis, and JBL will remain on everyone's lips - and Richard didn't even have to build a spec car to prove it. :)

Now that that's out of the way, BB or SB ?!?.......

Hey Craig what are you doing over here looking around.

%/

Jay,

Checked the mail today still no sign of the envelope. Did you Airmail it?

:confused:

Did you send it to the business address?

:confused:

Perhaps they are looking into the kilo of grade you put in with the envelope.

%/

Hear from you soon. Give me a yell on the 'Australian Club Forum' when you get a chance.

Cheers

:3DSMILE:

Bernie

Bernie Knight
Mt. Gambier South Australia.

Dr H Sorry to see your giving up on this, but I never saw it as having any real chance. He!!, we can't get people to bring their cars to drivers schools, let alone subject their egos to a public forum. There are very few mfgs interested in track performance, especially when it's a mfg v mfg heads up. To much ego and $ at stake. Your rules were a fair bit biased toward your product (at least it separated engine/tire/driver variables out effectively) as you are a VERY small producer, with a very focused product. Not a very friendly situation for companys whose target is to sell larger numbers to people who want a fantasy for show. I agree with someone before who suggested using R&G as the venue, and let customers with various mods have at it. Maybe they could put together a "strictly stock" class, but who would determine what was what. I mean, wasn't R&G started just for this very purpose, to showcase the strengths , and weakness, of various mfgs? Maybe a little flexability is called for.

The driver formerly known as McFEz

I am surprised that FFR has not entertained the idea. At their price point, why not get compared to a JBL, BDR, or Renegade. It would almost seem that JBL would have more to loose in a contest against some lesser designed rivals at least lesser in theory. Scott

I'LL PUT MY MONEY ON DENNIS :D :D :D

TL:MECOOL:

Richard has started a new thread for a continued discussion on the Challenge idea.

Further input for him should go here:

http://www.clubcobra.com/t47746.html

I think a427sc summed it up the best.....what is the point of rehashing this unworkable idea?

Cripes Pat, a Crankoid and a Gashole seeing eye to eye!! Whats next, BB and sb love fests?

McZO6t

formerly McFEz

i have not followed this thread very much, but thought i would toss in my opinion. I acknowledge that many enthusiasts would like to know which replica "handled" the best. But very few of our cars ever approach their limits, at least under our control. I hope to never get near my SPF's limits, which i often explore on the track, out in the real world. I would be in big trouble. I just "don't go there."

I am well aware of the exhausting effort expended by Bob and Dennis Olthoff when they competed (very successfully) in the One Lap events, and when they ran in the challage Car and Driver did a year or so ago. It took a lot of time, money, and sweat to participate in these events, and now, they just don't have that kind of time. They have also supplied cars for magazines like Grass Roots Motorsports. My guess is that the payoff is just not worth the effort for most assemblers and manufactures.

If companies like Jaguar, Mitsubishi have recently cut back or eleminated their factory particpation in racing and rallying, how can a two man operation afford to do it??

Perhaps a new company will expend the effort for some recognition, while other more established firms choose to rest a bit on their laurals, and persue other goals.

My suggestion is for the factories to support their owners, like SPF, FFR, and some of the others do to a great extent, and let them go out and have at it. If someone wants to claim their replica handles better than mine, i couldn't care less. Heck, other SPF's with women driving them pass me at VIR!!

Making a custom car for a single event is just too expensive for the return.

Hal: You make some good points. However, the spirit of this event is for a manufacture to take a bone stock, as advertised car and install a crate engine. The most this will cost a manufacturer is travel expenses and if they chose to, they might discount the car as a demo after the event.

Every manufacturer(I assume) has a standard car that is used as a demo or at shows or... All they'll need to do is ensure it shows up with the specified crate engine.

Boudy

THAT is the point! A bone stock car DRIVEN to the event! That should dramatically ease the "cost" burden and keep it "real". I'm not interested in seeing a one of a kind special prepped car do this thing!

Ernie

formerly McFez -

It is kind of amazing....holiday spirit maybe?

Or just common sense?

Pat