Nothing better to do...

[Todd Hedges]

since it is so cold here, and there is no chance of taking the car for a ride in the next 3 months, I was just thinking,

Given the following parameters, which engine would you choose for the most reliable performance in the 550+hp range:
Must run on 92 - 93 octane pump gas - high priority
Must be street drivable from 2,000 to 3,500 rpm
Redline rpm around 6,000
Fit in an ERA 427SC

This will most likely become a BB/SB debate, and that's not my goal. I was looking for a little more on specifics as to the best way of getting a drivable 550+hp engine that won't blow itself up, and run on pump gas.

If it turns out to be as simple as tweaking a 428, then the next step is to find someone good that can tweak the one I already have. BUT I am keeping an open mind to the fact that a quicker revving, newer technology SB may be more reliable and a better option.

Sorry for opening this can of worms again.

[rdorman]

This does not need to be a BB/SB debate. If those where my goals I would probably pick a BB. Most likely some form of 460. Sure you can do that with a SB but considering HP per cubic inch, it is easier with more cubes and inherently more reliable.

Rick "love my cleveland" Dorman

[Ron61]

Todd,

Just my limited bit, but having both a big block and a stroker, I would say that it was easier to get the 500+ out of the big block as I didn't really have to have much done. The engine builder told me that for what I had to do with the stroker to get that I could get over 600 from the big block. I like them both and for daily crusing or just running around the big block is my choice as I don't have to have it up in the higher RPM range to enjoy the power and torque. The big block is in an original 1969 Ford Torino Cobra that I still have the original tires on. The car weighs 3,900 pounds and still accelerates like a bomb, especially once I get past the 90 MPH mark. But with the 43 year old Goodyear Polyglas tires on it I won't do that nay more.

Ron

[blykins]

Todd, 550 from a SBF is not that big of a deal. You can do it on pump gas, and make it very streetable. Of course you start with a 351W block....a little stroke....maybe to 392 or 408 ci, 10.5:1 compression, AFR or TFS heads, a single plane intake, a good carb, and a good roller cam with roller valvetrain....voila....As a matter of fact, I just ran a desktop dyno for a guy with a stock bore and stroke 351W with 11:1 and TFS heads and a decent cam.....it made 525hp....now 11:1 is a little high on the street, but you could gain that back with a higher stroke rotating assembly. 550 streetable ponies isn't hard.

[Chaplin]

Todd-
I think you forgot to include another parameter-- price. If money is not a limiting factor, I would go with an aluminum FE block stroked to 484 (or bigger) with a nice hydraulic roller cam. You would have all the hp and torque you could ever want well under 6k rpm. Granted this would likely cost the better part of 20k, but I think it would be a great street motor. I have been considering picking up an aluminum block and over the next couple of years buying the pieces and building one myself- with the exact same parameters that you have in mind.


(And BBs are better than SBs- just kidding)

[mattr762]

Premier Motorsports has a hybrid 289 car that has a supercharged 4.6 Mustang Cobra engine. It's producing 550hp. I've ridden in it and its amazing. Driving around town and keeping it below 3500 was very smooth and easily driven. Floor it and say by-by to traction. Chuck from Premier also mentioned that when driven nicely he get 26 MPG.

[Fred Douglass]

...if you really want the big hp and a long-lived engine, go with the bb*. One of the locals here on the Cape has long said that "the closer the cubic inches are to the horsepower/torque figures, the longer the engine will last between rebuilds". I've been juggling between rebuilding a 351 Cleveland and going with a 406(?) stroker. Clevelands rev like air-drills and I decided (for the time being) that under 500 hp/ft-lbs was sufficient. C. 450-480 in a 2670# Butler is streetable and shortshifting yields good mileage on 92 octane! A cross-Cape friend with an ERA has a 427 monster---must have 575+ hp. He gets appreciable mileage by short-shifting the Tremec and rumbling around under 2200 rpm---but he's got to add octane booster every refill and is looking at a potential rebuild frequency of 25,000 miles. That's okay, since he doesn't drive it a lot. I'd stick to and swear by the old adage of "there is no substitute for cubic inches".
In fact I am contemplating the same thing you are. Big hp and (maybe) big block---especially feasible in a Butler, with the engine about 18+" behind the front axle. It's really a "front-engined mid-engine" cobra.

Good luck.

*hope this doesn't start the old "fling-poo" discussion!

[Chaplin]

Who is Rick?

[flipper35]

You build more power with more cubes at lower rpm. Few small blocks will make that much power below 6500 - 6700 rpm. Most are arounf 7k or more rpm. More cubes or artificial aspiration will produce the power you want at the lower rpm range you are looking for. But any good engine shop can get you what you want.

[CJ428CJ]

Todd,

If you want it to fit in your ERA, stay with an FE. I believe a 429/460 would require new foot boxes and the like. I don't think 550hp would be tough to get out of your 428. It would probably only require about 10.5:1 compression, some nicely ported Edelbrock heads, and a hydraulic roller cam. That should easily put you over 500hp and probably right about 550.

Chris

[cobrashoch]

Todd - Yours is a good logical question that degrades to a small vs big d**k contest most times unfortuately. But to me this type of question is exactly what this forum is supposed to be about.
Most big cube motors will easly get you to the magic 500+ HP numbers. But you will need to reverse engineer out some possibilitys based on experiences of others, as I see your basic question.
For example a 385/BB is not in the cards for a ERA SC car in my opinion. And I'm sorta a 385 type guy.
With a FE and a ERA SC car, and a big cubic inch motor you can use a milder cam and compression and still get to that magic 500+ number. You can get there with higher tech. solutions too.($$$$$$)
But that 500 horse power is no guarantee that the car will run well either. Enter the REAL costs.
Oh those costs. And I'm not just talking about the costs of the engine/ tranny either. I allways tell new-be's to expect to spend about as much money on the rest of the car as you spent on the motor, to harness that power. Those type of costs are usially over and above the costs of the basic kits most times too. When you begin to think that way it then becomes a question of direction, and your plans for the car too.
Another cost effective, traditional hot rod way, to address this issue AND retain some flexibility, is to consider a centrifical supercharger. On the combo. you presently have.
Whatever your choice, remember that engine power and how your car runs are two very very different things. And that's usially why most guys upgrade to higher powered engines, and are disappointed mostly with the results.
cobrashock

[strictlypersonl]

Another factor to consider - if you ever sell your car. A stroked side-oiler or Shelby block will be worth about $10K more than any small block. (Well, maybe not a Gurney-Weslake. )