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-   -   What's Recognized as the Most Authoritative Cobra Reference? (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/80516-whats-recognized-most-authoritative-cobra-reference.html)

BDHE 07-11-2007 01:13 PM
What's Recognized as the Most Authoritative Cobra Reference?
 
Greetings;

At a car show this weekend, I witnessed a couple of people almost come to blows over "facts" about a cobra. Both parties were obviously convinced that the source of their information was the LAW.

Hence, the question: What IS the most widely recognized source of published information for the original cobras?


Bryon

Ron61 07-11-2007 01:33 PM
Bryon,

I am not sure of this as they have been changed so much over the years, but I would think at this time the 1997 Shelby Registry would be the most accurate, at least so far as how they left Shelby's. There is a new Registry in progress that will only cover Cobras and when it is finally published will most likely be the most accurate source for the originals.
Actually probably the most accurate source period is ask Ron (ComputerWorks) :)

Ron :)

A-Snake 07-11-2007 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHE
Hence, the question: What IS the most widely recognized source of published information for the original cobras?
Bryon
I think your question may need a little clarification. Are you asking about the history of an individual car including its ownership OR specific details on original Cobra construction and parts used?

If it is the history of an individual car, then the SAAC Registry would be the best source.

Tinker51 07-11-2007 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron61
Actually probably the most accurate source period is ask Ron (ComputerWorks) :)
That was going to be my suggestion too.

sidewaysinthird 07-11-2007 05:42 PM
I'll give my vote to Ron also.
 
However before Ron gets three dozen e-mails doesn't the SAAC registry show to the best of their knowledge how each car left, what options, equipment etc? Personally I would also like to have as much information as possible about construction, parts used, and lots of pictures.

Maybe we can talk Ron into producing such a manual in all his spare time? :LOL: I certainly would pay what the registry costs ($175 I think) for such a wealth of information.

If I can't log on for a month or two I'll know Ron took offense.

Mike

BDHE 07-11-2007 05:51 PM
[quote=A-Snake]I think your question may need a little clarification. Are you asking about the history of an individual car including its ownership OR specific details on original Cobra construction and parts used?

A-Snake;

I'm trying to find out what the general production specifications were for the SC-427s, not find out about a specific car.


Bryon

Dangerous Doug 07-11-2007 06:12 PM
Pretty much anything by Rinsey Mills, but I refer to these three:

AC Cobra The Truth Behind the Anglo-American Legend by Rinsey Mills

Essential Ac Cobra: The Cars and Their Story 1962-67 (Essential Series) by Rinsey Mills (Paperback - May 1997)

Original Ac Ace and Cobra (Full Color Restoration Guides Series) by Rinsey Mills and Mark Hughes (Hardcover - Dec 1990)

A-Snake 07-11-2007 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHE
I'm trying to find out what the general production specifications were for the SC-427s, not find out about a specific car.
Bryon
In that case the 427 Cobra specification differences between street, semi/competition, & full competition is covered on page 253 of the Registry.

Dwight 07-11-2007 07:54 PM
Everybody knows the whole history of Cobras
 
This post is of interest to me because last Saturday at a local car cruise a guy told me that Bill Cosby bought the last Cobra made and it was serial number 495.

It took me 5 minutes to tell him what little I know about Cobra history. I think I was a little closer than he was. :LOL: We get these stories all the time. If you stand near a Cobra at a show and listen to what the people say about Cobras, It's funny. Most of the time I don't respond but this guy, I just had to correct him. No one was around to hear us. I smiled and was nice. Never know, he may buy a Cobra and cruise with us.

Dwight

Excaliber 07-11-2007 10:31 PM
The best source of information concerning accurate details of Cobra specificiations?

While I fully support the idea of the SAAC registry and several really good books on the subject don't underestimate CLUB COBRA for the latest up-to-date new discoveries of old history as it concerns the Cobra world. I am convinced right HERE is where information is confirmed or adjusted from the many and varied sources of PEOPLE who really KNOW what there talking about.

Got a question about 427 specs? Read it in a book, including the SAAC manual? Post that question HERE and you WILL get the latest accurate information, gaurenteed!

xlr8or 07-12-2007 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron61
Bryon,

Actually probably the most accurate source period is ask Ron (ComputerWorks) :)

Ron :)

I was going to suggest he talk to Ernie. %/

Excaliber 07-12-2007 01:44 AM
:LOL: I sit at the feet of the masters when it comes to Cobra history. People like Ron. All I know I've learned from others.

BMK 07-12-2007 02:37 AM
For history and articles, photos etc. Trevor Legate's books are a great source.

The SAAC is always a good site to get information in particular the Register.

Having watched Ron gather photos and information at the Fontana California SAAC event, I can agree that he has very accurate photos and details...%/

Bernie

richsd 07-12-2007 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
...Post that question HERE and you WILL get the latest accurate information, gaurenteed!
This is an interesting comment in that the "latest" information is not necessarily the accurate information. The true nature of the original Cobra has been redefined by the replica world so much of the "latest" information is not correct. There are certainly a few people on this forum (like Ron, Sal, Byouts, MrMustang) that have developed a wonderful accurate knowedge of the original Cobra. Yes, you will get accurate information from them. However, many of the people that really know the original cars have absolutely no interest in this type of forum.

I will give you one specific example of how the original nature of the Cobra has been redefined. Correct steering wheel. I won't even get into all of the incorrect modern leather type steering wheels that are used on replicas. Let's focus on the original 16" wood steering wheel. The reproductions (which are on some original cars along with many very good replicas) have redefined what a proper original wheel looks like. These "correct" reproductions are made by Moto Lita in a beautiful dark mahogany wood. Although made by the original manufacturer, this wood is not correct. The original wheels were a made with a lighter beachy multi-colored wood. The general marketplace appreciates the look of the darker mahogany more so this has become the new reality for what is correct when replicating an original Cobra. As a result of this market preference, Moto Lita has changed the way that they make the wheels to this darker style.

jdog 07-12-2007 01:35 PM
Old Cobras?
 
You mean there were old Cobras?

Old Cobras must be for people who can't afford a new one!:p

jdog
P.S. The Jerk: "Bring us some new wine, not this old stuff"

richsd 07-12-2007 02:12 PM
That Jerk reference is a perfect analogy. Very funny.

Excaliber 07-12-2007 02:47 PM
Point well taken richsd, the accepted level of what is generally considered a 'replica' Cobra continues to deteriorate on a daily basis. Boldy many proclaim they could care less about 'history' or 'accurate' details when it comes to building their replica. Some of that HAS to filter down to those restoring the originals and lowering the standards there as well.

By 'latest' information I'm referring to MANY examples of what was once commonly held to be 'fact' being corrected by people coming forward or history slueths taking a second look. The SAAC manual will contain many such corrections as our knowledge of these cars CONTINUES to improve with a more in depth look. Such as your observation concerning the original steering wheels!

While there may many original owners who have no interest in POSTING on Club Cobra, they would be a fool to ignore CC when it comes to accuratly verifying history. In fact, I'm surprised at the number of original owners that DO grace this forum with their insights. Quite remarkable I'd say.

richsd 07-12-2007 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
Poit well taken richsd, the accepted level of what is generally considered a 'replica' Cobra continues to deteriorate on a daily basis.
Very true and nicely put.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
Some of that HAS to filter down to those restoring the originals and lowering the standards there as well.
This is a great point too. The restorations done on some originals have also been compromised due to this redefinition of history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
By 'latest' information I'm referring to MANY examples of what was once commonly held to be 'fact' being corrected by people coming forward or history slueths taking a second look. . ..Such as your observation concerning the original steering wheels!
Yes, and I think there are a few key people that give great contribution to this effort here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
While there may many original owners who have no interest in POSTING on Club Cobra, they would be a fool to ignore CC when it comes to accuratly verifying history. In fact, I'm surprised at the number of original owners that DO grace this forum with their insights. Quite remarkable I'd say.
Yes, agree. However I was not actually talking about original "owners". It is true that some original owners have an active interest here and some do not. I think it is also true that some original owners have great Cobra knowledge and that some have very limited knowledge. Just because someone owns an original car does not necessarily mean that they have any idea of the correct historical information associated to Shelby Cobras. Certainly many do but some don't. But I was actually referring to a number of craftsmen that worked with Shelby and Angliss back in the day, worked preparring Cobra Comp cars for races, restoring originals, and that continue to be involved with service and restoration of originals today. These are people that have owned various original cars over the years but their knowledge is really not from ownership but from participating in the history of the car. I know a number of these type of folks (including those that built my Kirkham) and for some reason they have no interest in contributing here. I think it is in part due to an opinion on their part that they were there originally and so they know it all and as a result do not need to participate in a current group to learn. They also feel that there is a bunch of inaccurate information flying around and they don't have an interest in seeing that or the energy to try to correct it. In almost every Cobra book published they have pointed out inaccuracies to me. Their perspective is, "I was there and I know the real story. I have nothing to learn and no reason to correct others since it is not worth my energy." This is certainly somewhat arrogant but I also understand the perspective. Anyway, I was more talking about these long time craftsmen types as opposed to current owners of original cars.

BDHE 07-12-2007 04:28 PM
You've made my point..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsd

In almost every Cobra book published they have pointed out inaccuracies to me. Their perspective is, "I was there and I know the real story.

This is what has me stumped right now -- I've consulted various references and found what appear to be inconsistencies. I was hoping that somewhere there was a "rosetta stone" of specifications that was widely held to be correct.

I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses. Any other opinions or pointers to reference information would be appreciated!



Bryon

1ntCobra 07-12-2007 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsd
Very true and nicely put.


This is a great point too. The restorations done on some originals have also been compromised due to this redefinition of history.


Yes, and I think there are a few key people that give great contribution to this effort here.


Yes, agree. However I was not actually talking about original "owners". It is true that some original owners have an active interest here and some do not. I think it is also true that some original owners have great Cobra knowledge and that some have very limited knowledge. Just because someone owns an original car does not necessarily mean that they have any idea of the correct historical information associated to Shelby Cobras. Certainly many do but some don't. But I was actually referring to a number of craftsmen that worked with Shelby and Angliss back in the day, worked preparring Cobra Comp cars for races, restoring originals, and that continue to be involved with service and restoration of originals today. These are people that have owned various original cars over the years but their knowledge is really not from ownership but from participating in the history of the car. I know a number of these type of folks (including those that built my Kirkham) and for some reason they have no interest in contributing here. I think it is in part due to an opinion on their part that they were there originally and so they know it all and as a result do not need to participate in a current group to learn. They also feel that there is a bunch of inaccurate information flying around and they don't have an interest in seeing that or the energy to try to correct it. In almost every Cobra book published they have pointed out inaccuracies to me. Their perspective is, "I was there and I know the real story. I have nothing to learn and no reason to correct others since it is not worth my energy." This is certainly somewhat arrogant but I also understand the perspective. Anyway, I was more talking about these long time craftsmen types as opposed to current owners of original cars.
In one of the last few SAAC magazines, this topic came up. It seems that the Cobra and Shelby Mustang restorers would prefer not to give up their information for free. They have spent years figuring out what is correct. They would prefer that you spend your money at their shops to get an accurate restoration.

It seems to me that the SAAC concours (sp?) car judges know what is correct and could compile that information and perhaps include it in the SAAC registry. But I guess they don't have an interest in doing that either.


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