FFR's perky butt keeping it down?

[JAM1775]

I not sure I agree with Sal's assertion that "FFR's resale has been diluted as a whole because it's a kitcar" as many folks home build ERA's, Midstates, Shell Valley, Unique and even CSX cars. If the car is not built with quality it will not be reliable or safe and may not sit well in the Cobra resale market proportionate to it's build cost.

My 8 yr old FFR MK1 definitely has a lesser quality body and other components than a higher cost kit or component replicas. Although, in '99 I chose not to use all donor parts in the build a factor contributing to cost reduction was the huge support of affordable Ford Mustang aftermarket parts. FFR's resale value is proportionate to the investment price range they occupy within the industry. FFR never set out to target the top end "glass replicas" . The affordability of FFR was the company objective. However, they have come a very long way in body/chassis and overall improvements since my prehistoric MK1 which still stops folks dead on the street. The newest FFR body plus "fully complete kit" minus drivetrain & tires eliminates the aftermarket requirement . The builder buys everything from FFR. Cost is higher but it still appears FFR's target audience is the same while quality is enhanced. They never shot for the top slots. That is why they remain a major player in the cobra replica industry. I high end cost Cobra is well beyond my reach. That's why I'd also sure love to see them expand to full rollers.....you never know.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by JAM1775

I not sure I agree with Sal's assertion that "FFR's resale has been diluted as a whole because it's a kitcar" as many folks home build ERA's, Midstates, Shell Valley, Unique and even CSX cars. If the car is not built with quality it will not be reliable or safe and may not sit well in the Cobra resale market proportionate to it's build cost.

Right, but you can ONLY get an FFR as a kit, no exceptions. You can get most of those other cars built by the factory, and that makes for a consistant, quality built car, sold for a higher price. That's what I meant by my statement.

[FFRBob]

There are still some quality control issues that FFR needs to work out. I have a Mark 3 and there are several problems that I had when building the car. The door striker mounts don't line up with the door latches. I ended up cutting the mounts off and bolting new ones on. The perky butt now drives me nuts after seeing other replicas. The nose aluminum doesn't fit for garbage. The under door aluminum was completely useless, but they've fixed it since and offered to sell me a piece that works for $60. Forget that. The pre-drilled quick jack holes in the front were drilled too low which causes the whole body to stick up a bit on the driver side. The hood scope still isn't centered or straight on the hood. Lowering the steering shaft 1/2" would make installing a brake booster a lot easier. I would love to see a toploader transmission mount option, I had to fabricate an intermediary mount to make it work. The sidepipe mounts that attach to the hangers always end up cracking at the weld. There is not enough adjustment in the door hinge assemblies to get them to line up well, I had to open up the elongated holes to make them work. All of these things are simple fixes, yet continue to be ignored and that drives me nuts.

On the upside, I built a big-block FFR for around $40k that turned out very nice. I get all kinds of complements everywhere I go. Since it uses Mustang suspension and brake parts, maintenance and repairs are easy and inexpensive. The frame is nice and stout, so I feel reasonably safe in the car and that's probably the most important feature. The body work wasn't really all that bad. If I could actually afford to do it again, I don't know that I'd choose FFR, though. The Hurricanes look really nice and I'd take a long hard look at their product.

I know I got off topic a little, but I had to say my peace. I feel better now, thanks for letting me rant

The car wasn't quite done when I took this picture. It's farther along now, with just a few minor things to finish. I've had too much fun driving it to work on it. Excuse the messy garage:

[Dangerous Doug]

The funny thing about all the various body differences, is that the non-initiated can barely tell the difference between a 289FIA and a 427 S/C.

I don't know how many times I had read my "Complete Guide to Cobra Replicas" and studied the various manufacturers and the photos, before I began to realize that the SPF body was different from the ERA body was (slightly) different from the Kirkham body.

I did see a silver FFR in Scotts Valley last week that had quite the perky butt. I think the owner had larger tires in the back and this made the car look jacked up with the signature FFR perky posterior. Didn't look right to me, but it didn't stop the teenagers on the corner from dropping to their knees and bowing, "We're not worthy!"

I went with ERA because the snake bite I got was from an original 289FIA at the Monterey Historic Auto Races, and I "wanted THAT body". Looked far and wide, and stopped dead in my tracks when I saw an ERA 289FIA in real life (at Athens at the NorCal Cobra breakfast one morning).

DD

[289fia_cobra]

Doug you do make another good perspective point.

From a gathering at Livermore and Baji's, everyone know's their Cobra's pretty well but nobody get's put down.

From the casual person on the street, it goes from:

"is it real"
"is that a Miata"
"is that a old Vette"
"what IS that"
"it's cute"
"floor it!"
and thumbs up and waves.

for all intents, non-enthusiasts agree it's a unique and good looking body style unlike the bars of soap w/4 wheels these days (yeah, I got one of them too!). It never really bothered me the butt was "perky". But I guess when a bunch of them are lines up "cheek-to-cheek", the FFR's do stand out as an odd duck I guess.

And finally, to the "purists" well, I would argue that based on everything I've read in all of the Cobra related literatures and pictures to date, not many of the racing Cobra's were exactly alike. What is correct on one, doesn't exist on another (i.e. extra tall side louvers, existence of hood lovers, the hacked up front scooped Cobra called "the turd" by ken miles, windscreens vs. windshield, etc.) Just too many differences in each racers car to say something was included in the original or not. I get tired of the arguements after awhile and just drive and enjoy what I built.

[JAM1775]

Thanks Sal...maybe I misunderstood the generality your original statement. Funny as it may seem but FFR's reluctance to build has generated secondary demand for quality builders with extensive race backgrounds, proven track experience and noted expertise in FFR cobra replica builds. In the end customers pay more for the complete turnkey. Less of a bargain... no doubt but not home builds and still below cost of the higher end replicas. These builders work closely with FFR and are well known across the coasts by FFR customers as vendors on their dedicated forum. In our immediate NYarea there are 2 quality race shops that have built 8-10 FFR's from roller to turnkey since 1995. But they pale in comparison to the business generated by more widely known FFR builders who benefit beneath FFR's reluctance to build rollers. FFR is still a young company when compared to some of the higher end cobra replica companies mentioned above .

So joey hv ...you didn't miss anything Bub ! The industry is aggressively competitive with companies as different as a Toploader vs. Tremec,
Jag vs. T-Bird IRS, 9 inch vs. 8.8 ........or .......perish the thought if a
Big Block vs. a Small Block !

[1985 CCX]

KMP and ERA only?
FFR cars are in high #'s, inconsistant, and really do make great race cars. As a replica I have seen models I adore and some I cringe at. That is part of the fun!
Did you forget about CSX4000 glass cars? CCX?
I think Contemporary did a decent job as well, I am bias though:

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by JAM1775

In our immediate NYarea there are 2 quality race shops that have built 8-10 FFR's from roller to turnkey since 1995. But they pale in comparison to the business generated by more widely known FFR builders who benefit beneath FFR's reluctance to build rollers.

And then there are some who are not even considered builders who have done just as many out of their old 1 car garage .

[Fred Z]

great thread! I would like to chime in, if I might?
I researched all models before i went forward. Planned on KMP...then Era....them SPF! I know a professional builder of FFR's, Langley K.......who builds very high end cars....and was a great spec racer as well. I chose FFR......because of a few factors......i could make the car the way i liked......but because i wanted pretty close to period correct, knew I was both....against the tide with the 'perky' and such.......but in my favor was the option to build with only hi performance parts....all new.....and with options that I could apply because I have the $$ to do what I want!! (just a lucky guy right now)
I call this my...professionally hand-built custom replica! It has no donar parts.....custom options which would be a long list.....but trust me here.....it is extensive.....Lang built this as good or better than a factory...because he has the attention to every detail before moving on to another!!! Another fact...all cars are made of parts....new or not, so I guess every car is a kit of sorts!! SoI built the car for approx. $80 k! Yes, youread it right......Large!! I have no regrets....and when I have been with other guys and cars.......they are faily impressed with the build, quality, and finish! Batman's art is what is seen first, as the paint is usually obvious..but the interior, engine bay and even down to the truck interior....displays nothing but the highest quality materials available. Yes, maybe I will not ever get the return on my investment shown in sales price......but I can tell you for sure......this car has the quality of any other car I have seen, bar none!! But remember, I spent whatever it took to get it there!! I have had a nice chat with lance Stander at SPF.....and if I were to choose another car..........most likely I would go his way....but my car is fun, looks nice....rides unbelievable, and is still close to period correct as I could get it....minus a few upgrades necessary.
the perky butt.......someone told me once.......that this is the 'new age look' for the younger set.......more of a style change for the ages.........(not sure 'bout that one)....but the look doesn't work me in the least! Hell......I can't see the butt anyway........i'm driving the darn thing!!
I admire the original looks......the KMP...ERA...and CSX. they are sweet, for sure. But you can make a kit car as good.....just have to spend more $$ and get a pro to make it.
anyway...........my opinion..........not for everyone!!
fred z

[Richard Hudgins]

And now for something entirely different.

(Think Monty Python for the correct outlook here)

A REAL butt.

Sorry

I could not help myself.

[joey_hv]

Originally Posted by Richard Hudgins

And now for something entirely different.
(Think Monty Python for the correct outlook here)
A REAL butt.

Sorry
I could not help myself.

Now that is a nice booty...the narrow hips accentuate the "baby got back" feel of it...
so does anyone have a cheek to cheek picture of a ffr perky butt and a... regular butt (didn't think "droopy butt" quite fit)

[1985 CCX]

Well said Fred.....................
Great looking car as well.
That would be in my adore catagory.

[ztarum]

Here is a good profile comparison. http://www.erareplicas.com/427/profiles/index.htm

[joey_hv]

Originally Posted by ztarum

Here is a good profile comparison. http://www.erareplicas.com/427/profiles/index.htm

thanks Ztarum for the picture. Although I don't think one can appreciate the differences in derriers unless viewed from behind, side by side..