Insurance and car value
 

I am in the middle of purchasing a used Kirkham. I tried calling Hagerty regarding insurance. They do not insure replicas of any kind anymore. Is there a carrier with agressive Hagerty type rates for low useage? Is there a type of bluebook for value of a Kirkham?

Check Classic Insurance. They are an advertiser on CC.

If you are a State Farm policy holder they have a great classic car policy. I pay about $360 combined a year for my B&B valued at $35000 & my 66 Mustang valued at $14000. My wife is my agent but we don't get any discounts for being an employee. If you are in Washington state you can pm me and she can quote you. If not I suggest you contact your local State Farm agent. I'm not just saying this because my wife is an agent, they really do have a good policy. The thing is you have to have your whole household with them to take advantage of it. We just recently ran into a guy with an ERA who was paying much more for a car valued at $45000. His policy stated he could only drive it to and from shows and events. Thats no fun. He's paranoid as a result and has only put 200 miles on the car in 3 years...

state farm
 

Is it stated value, agreed value, or other. Most companies will not give you what you say it is worth but what they think it is worth when you file the claim. My State Farm agent (who has the policy on my house Personal umbrella and 5 of my cars) could not write me a policy for the true value of my cobra.
John(;-)

As with any specialty item it is a challenge to establish an agreed value. It has always been my experience that with an appraisal or a reasonable confirmation of market value from the vehicle manufacturer or a little market research one can come to an agreed value. Defining true value is easy with market comparisons. I will ask my agent (wife) when she gets home for better clarification and post her response.

I am with State Farm, and all my agent required for full value insurance was a written valuation from an independent source. As I had just built mine, I got the kit manufacturer to provide mine after they had taken a look at it (OK for me since I just trailered it to Fort Worth for them to do the final check anyhow). With a Kirkham, you might be able to get them to give you a written valuation, but State Farm seems like a very professional group and you should try them. Your agent might not require the written valuation.

Thank all of you for the advice on State Farm. I will check with them tomorrow. I evidently need a "Blue Book" type value or an independent appraisal to establish value regardless. I looked in NADA and CPI and did not see anything for Kirkham.

I believe State Farm pays fair market value determined by an outside source. My wife's Expedition was totaled recently and that is what we went through. Fair market value as compared with 5-6 vehicles with similar features. But I am paying closer to $360 per 6 months on the Cobra. I have an exellent driving record with all the multi vehicle and long term customer discounts. In California.

John

I live in L.A. My state farm agent wanted $850.00 to insure my backdraft for $55,000. Can you tell how you did it so I can let my agent know? they seem to be clueless about insuring these cars. You can get me directly at sgallegos@charter.net. thanks

I'm using Midwest Classic. I'm insured for an agreed value of 50K, 6000 miles per year limit, w/zero deductable.. $555 per year.. quite a bit cheaper than my Z06..

Midwest Classic
 

I used Midwest Insurance (Robbin- He is listed on CC.)for my Kirkham. Their underwriter accepted receipts rather than an appraisal. They wrote it through Infinity Insurance which is a major insurer. My regular car is through State Farm. I got a quote from my agent and it was clear they did not want the business based on their quote.

Actual Cash Value (ACV) = EVIL
 

I finally found the terms and definitions I was looking for and took the liberty of copying them.


Types of Coverage

There are three basic types of coverage. Understanding the differences and selecting the best for your needs will play a very important role should there be the unfortunate need to file a claim. They are:

* Actual Cash Value (ACV)
* Stated Value (SV)
* Agreed Value (AV)

Insurance companies will use one of these three different policy forms. These methods of determining the value of a loss for each is different, misunderstood, and frequently misrepresented by insurance agents.

Actual Cash Value: This is the typical type of coverage in a standard insurance policy and pays a “depreciated” value in the event of a claim. As the vehicle gets older, its value decreases. The insurance claims adjuster decides what the car was worth at the time of the loss. Disagreements can sometimes only be solved with litigation.

Stated Amount: This is the type of policy is often used for collector car policies and is frequently misunderstood. Many "Stated Amount" forms state the insurance company will pay the lesser of:

The Stated Amount
or
The cost to repair the covered auto not to exceed the “Stated Amount”
or
The “Actual Cash Value”

The “Stated Amount” only serves to set the maximum amount that will be paid. It does not guarantee you a settlement amount that reflects the value of the car when a loss occurs. The “Actual Cash Value” language allows the claims adjuster to settle your loss for an amount less than the “Stated Amount.” Sadly, most insurance agents are unaware of this detail. Most agents, unaware of the actual policy language, will insist if your collector car is stolen or totaled, you will receive the stated value. Wrong!

Agreed Value: This the type of coverage you should purchase. With this policy you are guaranteed in writing the amount you would acctually receive if you car is stolen or totaled. There should be no “Actual Cash Value” clause in the policy. The “Agreed Amount” policy should state that the insurance company will pay you the lesser of: The “Agreed Amount” or the cost to repair the car, not to exceed the “Agreed Amount”.

The “Agreed Amount” should be reviewed carefully with your agent before the policy is issued. Your agent and you must agree together upon the “Agreed Amount” before the policy is issued. The “Agreed Amount” should represent the true market value of the car at the time the policy is written. If the market value changes during the policy period, the “Agreed Amount” can be changed by endorsement. Before policy renewal each year the “Agreed Amount” should be changed, if necessary, to reflect current market value.

Most standard insurance companies do not offer an “Agreed Value” policy.


We had a talk by a Ferrari restorer / specialty body shop at a Nor Cal SAAC meeting a while ago and since the owner of the shop has had to deal with many insurance companies over the years, he gave us an education. He (and the members) had a number of horror stories regarding cars not being insured for what the owner thought they were because they were insured for ACV (Agreed Cash Value) which is what the insurance company determines. Moral of the story, ALWAYS make sure that your contract reads "AGREED" Value and NO Where does it say ACV or Agreed Cash Value. YMMV.

John(;-)

American Collectors Insurance, INC
Cherry Jill, NJ 08002-0343

I did a little more checking. State Farm has a 2000 mile a year limit on classic car policies. In addition there are restrictions on horsepower. Mine is a slightly warmed over 302 that doesn't reach the danger zone in their eyes. The value is Typically determined by market comparisons. In respect to rates they can vary greatly from state to state and even county to county...It is a great policy depending on your profile....No matter how you slice it these cars are a challenge to spec out for insurance of any kind due to all the variables...

my state farm agent told me 1,500 miles with no restrictions on where I drive it. I want to see the hard copy of the policy

It may be a California rule. I would look at your policy for verification. My wife is my agent and has looked closely into this as a result of the questions I and the forum have raised. My policy also has no location restrictions. One interesting detail is that the mileage is an average. In other words if you bought the car 3 years ago and only put 500 miles a year on it you can carry over the extra 1000 per year into this year. Kind of like carryover minuets. This is good until they recheck your mileage which I have yet to see or hear of...

cool
 

The first time I have thought "roll over" (Miles) and car could be used in the same sentence and be a good thing!
John(;-)

While I still need to check for the ACV clause, I spoke with American National. They currently have the car insured. I was told they could insure for 200/six months as a 65 and 400/six months as a 2001. I would have to place one other primary car with them. This seemed unusal to me. Any thoughts? This is a lot better than State Farm of CSAA. Hagerty will only insure a COB, COX or CSX but wanted 600/six months.

Thats funny, I'm laughing out loud as I type. Your information on value terminology is very informing. I was given a value but am not sure which term is used. I will clarify and let you know. One thing for sure ACV is basically wholesale value of any car. It is what car dealers use as a baseline for trade value. The only time it makes sense is when your trade has enough value to absorb the difference in sales tax. In Washington you only pay tax on the difference..

What is interesting is that the only consistent thing about insurance agents seems to be their INCONSISTENCY. MY State Farm lady told me I had 3000 miles per year!

Glyn