Crate engines ?

[Chris L]

Has anybody here had any experiences with T&L Engine developments in North Carolina. It appears they have a racing pedigree which should lend credibility to the quality of their product ?.
Keith Craft & Rousch are both supported well on this forum ( with regard to engines) and I am interested if I have missed anything I should take into consideration regarding this considerable purchase.

Cheers
Chris L
Australia

[Jim Doak]

You might want to read this thread: http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showth...mp%3BL+engines

Especially since you don't live particularly close to North Carolina.

I think that there was a similar thread on the GT40 forum.

[RodKnock]

Yes, there's a "bad news" thread on the www.gt40s.com forum as well.

[crawleyscobra]

Have you considered any other crate engines? I have looked at Smeding, Bill Mitchell and Jon Barrett. I have pretty much decided on Jon Barrett because it looks like I will be getting more for a better price, plus there is a local distributor who I will be ordering from.

[stcustoms]

I can not say anything about the other builders you are looking at but I can say I ordered a JB engine Jan 27 yes that would be JANUARY and told I would have it in hand when my customer came into town beginning of April no problem. After not hearing a word from them we started calling them mid March, 7-10 time a day with no answer and leaving VM w/ no call backs. If I did reach someone I was told no one was there to speak w/ or even more annoying got put on hold someone would pick and say they would be right with me and "click" hung up. Finally I emailed them April 30 and n May2nd got a response that they were a little behind and they did need a part I had if I could please send (arrived in their hands May 12) it their way and told engine would be completed "two weeks from today." So here we are June 30 and I have no engine, no phone calls to let me know what is going on, no emails nothing!!!!!!! But I can tell you my customer sure is in contact with me a few days a week...... I know you hear great things about their engines but their customer service and being way off on the time we would have our engine is horrible. Problems arise no doubt but not to call someone and let them know what is going on or returning calls is ridiculous. I've waited to see just how long it would be before they actually call me. Even put a letter in the box asking them to call me to discuss the balance when they knew for a fact they had a shipping date. Never again will I use them

[Frank Messina]

You don't indicate exactly what you're looking for, but if it's either a Windsor or 385 based engine don't forget the Ford Racing offerings. They are very solid, use all the good parts, come with a Ford backed warranty, and properly tuned put out more than the advertised HP.
Frank

[Bartruff1]

Ford Racing sells crate engines ...very high quality with a warranty and a world wide dealer network...I am very pleased with my Superformance 351W...

[rnocobra]

I agree with everything said so far - you should however check out M & R Racing as Matt and the boys build outstanding crate engines at a great price.

www.mandrengines.com/

[Bartruff1]

But I have read horror stories in here about having to have your crate motor removed and shipped back to the seller for warranty work ? That may not be the case if you have a local Roush dealer for example but it might be worth your time to determine how warranty work is done , will they approve a local shop ?? That is one reason I bought a Ford Racing Crate...so that I could take it to any Ford Dealer and here in the States there is one every hundred miles.

[madmaxx]

I cannot say enough about my Roush, it is the one item which has performed flawless since day one. Needless to say the best warranty is the one you never have to use!! Prior to purchasing I called as if I had a problem, they wanted to send a form I would fill out and return, they would then direct me to a local shop to do the repairs at their expense. I read their warranty closer and it appears they require an asme mechanic to do the install, I do not know how they handle that but to cover basis either have an asme install or you might be stuck without a warranty from Roush.

[Rickd]

There is something to the addage that "you get what you pay for" and that holds true for crate motors. Rousch and Keith Craft are among two of the more successful and better known builders - they are successful for a reason, and priced competitively for their products. When you see someone like one of the Kirkhams commending Keith Craft for his 331 stroker, that's a pretty good endorsement. I would go for a KC or a FOMOCO crate before I would go with someone offering amazing "discount" prices. Generally those prices reflect the actual parts that go into the motor. Really like my KC 331. Rick

[PANAVIA]

You can have good and bad luck depending on who is working that day. -- the best thing I did at Mustang Ranch (Santa Clara CA) was to put in place a Engine Test/Run Stand.

In that way after it is built and assembled, we can run it for 1-4 hours at various speeds to wear in the cam (flat tappet) or just to get things to seat and seal.

Companies like Harbor Freight and northern tool have engine run stands that you can customize to fit your needs, that you add a fuel tank and a radiator to and you are good to go.


Any "Mail-Order" engine you get, I would highly suggest that you thoughtfully and throughly examine it and verify that everything is 110% clean before firing it up.

I would have it run (your house or somewhere else) BEFORE you go putting it into your car. Also keep in mind, lots of crate engines are just long blocks with oilpan and valve covers. it usually takes 1500 to 2000 in "Stuff" to get your engine operational in a car.

Also keep in mind that most Crate Motors are not made in the cleanest of places and manufacturing debris can (and does) show up in places, and they are on a few trucks before they arrive at your house.

What We personally have found with Crate engines;

1. Rust from it sitting outside at a depot uncovered
2. parts removed from engine whilst sitting at a depot
3. forklift damage
4. casting sand in blocks
5. metal shavings in cylinder heads
6. missing parts internally

This is not to scare you, having a crate motor can be a great thing, and mail order can provide good engines, You can use a few mottos;

1. Trust but verify. (CIA)
2. It is not who actually makes the NUT, but the NUT actually who MAKES it. (me)


PS: --Good luck! Send me a PM if you need help.

--Steve

[Jim Doak]

I had a custom 331 stroker built by a reputable local builder when I lived in Wyoming. Unfortunately I moved out of state before my FFR build was complete and I could put any miles on the engine. Long story short: after I got the car finished and put 4900 miles on it, I'd experienced several problems including a broken rocker stud on the Edelbrock heads, and head gasket leaks and oil pan drips. Then two years ago the 331 started making really ugly sounds and bearing metal ended up in the oil filter. I replaced the 331 with a 345-horse Ford Racing crate 302.

After almost two years and over 4000 miles on the crate engine I've had zero problems. It may not be quite as powerful as the 331, but it doesn't use or leak any fluids or make any unusual sounds.

[madmaxx]

I agree with Jim, I recommend a "name brand". The only problem with Ford Racing is the engines are not "complete" you have to install carb, alternator etc and then that is an excuse if something breaks for finger pointing. I have heard nothing but good things about Roush, their warranty covers parts and LABOR and shipping back to Roush, needless to say their engines are not cheap. If I has limited budget I would go with Keith Craft, you can contact him directly, and he probably realizes he is only as good as his last job, right wrong or indifferent.

[SPF2245]

I agree with the posts above, also consider, every engine builder has had an unhappy customer (don't let one or two internet rants stop you from buying Builder "x"'s motor). I've got a Roush 427, I've had an oil leak...no big deal, my new Dodge did too...small
sh!t happens. Do some research, check the builder to see what parts are not included (carb, distr., pullies, ect) and do the math to see what you can afford.

[MrMagoo]

I have heard Performance Engineering is highly recommended, so check them out. They also do complete installs, I believe they specialize in Superformance. They were my second choice, I went with a 408 from Keith Craft.

KC is great. They always answer the phone, they take care of you when something in the process goes awry. I got a bellhousing that didn't match my tranny. They quickly sent me a check for the bellhousing, and I bought one from Summit, problem solved. After I installed the motor, I did a chassis dyno run and broke a tooth on my distributor gear. I sent the distributor down to Arkadelphia, and had it back with a new bronze gear in a week. This motor has power as advertised, pulling 450hp at the rear wheels. Keith's engine dyno got 505hp.

My only beef was that they shipped my motor way ahead of schedule! That was in November, which is the best time to order a motor, because racing season is over. I had to rush to make a space in my garage.

Knowing what I know now, I would definitely buy another motor from Keith again. In fact, I wouldn't have any reason not to. The only other choice would be to have it built locally, which has obvious advantages. I second the advice where people say stuff always happens. This is a complicated transaction. Good Luck!

[WarrenG]

I have no personal experience with Roush, but a friend of mine here (in VA actually) bought one of their motors and after install it was not performing as it should. He called Roush, went through their return process and Roush sent a transport down to pick up his car and deliver it to their facility. After the repairs were made they shipped the entire car back to him. All for no charge.

[madmaxx]

I am a big fan of Roush but they have some quirks like requiring an ASE certified mechanic to install, change oil every three months and they want it done at a "service station" with receipt to maintain the warranty. Now I would suspect if an issue arised and you did not comply they would cover unless you just did something stupid but the wording is in their contract you agree to when you purchase.

Being a "do it yourselfer" I would prefer to do my own install etc, but I would buy a complete running engine that has been dynoed before I receive. It is because of that Keith Craft is hard to compete with and has a little better pricing. So if you are going to have someone do the install use Roush or KC, do your own install I would have to lean toward KC because he does not have some of the stipulations Roush has in his warranty.

[Roush #1]

Maxx
No where in my Roush warranty information does it say a certified ASE mechanic has to do anything and no where does it say anything about an oil change interval of any type.
The only mention of oil in my literature is a recommendation of using a non synthetic oil for the first 3,000 miles.
I have had my engine nearly a year and have had one warranty claim. I have spoken to several people in Livonia, Michigan as well as the Texas dealership where I bought the engine and no one has ever mentioned anything about an ASE mechanic or an oil change interval.
On my warranty claim, I removed the carbureter, the dealership where I bought the engine sent the carburetor back to Michigan and Roush sent me back a new carburetor and I installed the new carburetor.
I think we have the same engine, but do we have different warranties?
Jody

[PANAVIA]

http://store.roushperformance.com/LimitedWarranty.pdf

Page 11 has the R series crate motor warranty, you may want to give it a read.

Bottom Line : do-it-yourself install folks are *not* covered unless they can prove they are FORD or ASE certified. Also the warranty is NOT transferable from the purchaser of the engine to any another entity. =- that is a low mile resale killer.

--Steve