Ford Starter shims???

[Juggernaut]

I had to replace the starter on my 289. The old starter was from a 1966 289 with a three speed manual & worked with my set-up. I thought it was causing a hard starting problem the car developed.

I got a replacement starter, it is the one I need, but now it is grinding on the flywheel when I attempt to start it.

I took it back to the parts store I bought it from & the guy told me I have to shim it. He said to use shims on the top bolt, or maybe just the bottom bolt or maybe both. He said I just have to play with it until it's lined up properly. Is that correct??

My old starter didn't have shims & it didn't grind on the flywheel.

Do I need to shim it & if I do, where do I get the shims, NAPA? Or do I use washers like the guy at the parts store told me?

The frustrating part of this whole thing is that there was nothing wrong with the old starter, the hard start problem was caused by the timing being too far advanced!

I feel like an idiot!!

[Juggernaut]

Just wanted to bring it to the top.

[scales]

If you decide to use Starter shims. I've seen them in the "HELP" section at most Auto Parts Stores,or get your original Starter back.

Marty.

[Jac Mac]

The idiot is the guy at the parts store, the starter on a ford is indexed by the sandwich plate between block/bellhousing, if the starter pinion or clutch assy is grinding into the flywheel its the starter end housing thats wrong for the job. Large dia flywheels use a different end housing on the starter to those with small dia flywheels due to the ring gear being positioned forward & closer to the cyl block assy. Difference is about 5/16".

[Rick Parker]

The shims are use to keep the body of the starter pinion further "forward" (towards front of car) so it does not interfere with the flywheel when the starter is non operational. 289's had 147 or 153 tooth flywheels and you should not need any shims if the correct starter is being used. Will the starter actually engage? If not you may be using a starter intended for a different tooth count.
Do not use washers or you will be replacing the starter again.......

[Juggernaut]

Thanks for the help guys.

Rick, most of the time, the starter won't engage. I got it to engage once out of maybe 5 tries. I stopped then didn't want to screw up the flywheel.

If my starter isn't the right one for the engine, how do I know which one will work? Do I go by tooth count? The guy I got the original starter from said it is from a 1966 289 with a 3 speed stick. Thats supposedly what the guy at the parts store sold me.

[Woodz428]

Starter shims on a Chevy..yes...on a Ford??? Never heard of them and I have had and built Fords since the 60s. I would have to agree with the comments about gear teeth, although, if I recall correctly there was a shorter and longer nose. I believe the manual trans had a different nose than the auto...I think it's the manual one that's longer. I have little faith in the current parts store system, their computer software is very poor and spotty. I went to get a marker light for my '89 GT(maybe a signal bulb) that was a push in bulb, they looked it up and gave me one for an older style. When I presented him with the one from the car for comparison, he shrugged his shoulders and said"that's what the computer calls for"...well the car must have been built wrong if that's what the computer said,LOL. I'll look up in my older interchange book and see what is listed.

[Woodz428]

I recalled correctly, there is an auto and a manual starter. I am pretty sure that the manual is longer, because I remember trying to install one years ago into an auto and the nose hit and it wouldn't go in. I would take it back and have it reordered. Tell him he's full of sheet if he tries to get you to shim it.

[Juggernaut]

Thanks for all the help guys, you've got me going in the right direction!

As soon as the parts store guy told me I needed to shim it, I thought of posting it on this forum just to be sure & I'm glad I did. You guys saved a lot of frustration!

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again,
Randy

[Rick Parker]

Often this is the dilema we face when we are not running an "off the shelf car". Most of the people working at the parts house are NOT car guys, and there are too many combinations for them to be current on. So unless you have a Honda engine under the hood it would be wise to create a list and keep it handy. It becomes important that WE know the specifics of our own car, especially if we travel out of our home base. Things such as the specific part numbers for what head gaskets, starter, fan belt(s),alternator, radiator hoses, plugs, distributor caps, wheel bearings, fuses etc. You never know when you will need an item and if you have the list in your wallet or under the seat cushion, it could make your life and that of the inherited parts guy a lot easier.

[Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Often this is the dilema we face when we are not running an "off the shelf car". Most of the people working at the parts house are NOT car guys, and there are too many combinations for them to be current on. So unless you have a Honda engine under the hood it would be wise to create a list and keep it handy. It becomes important that WE know the specifics of our own car, especially if we travel out of our home base. Things such as the specific part numbers for what head gaskets, starter, fan belt(s),alternator, radiator hoses, plugs, distributor caps, wheel bearings, fuses etc. You never know when you will need an item and if you have the list in your wallet or under the seat cushion, it could make your life and that of the inherited parts guy a lot easier.

Rick, how true, most of the people at those stores aren't car guys.

I agree about the parts listing for the car. I have one, a total of six different spreadsheets. I got the original starter used from a friend & there was some confusion at first on what car it came out of. Now thats straightened out & I now have a good part number for the starter on my list.

See ya,
Randy

[LX 90]

Ok so i have a simialr issue......
i have a 5.0 out of a 90 mustang backed by a c4 trans.. The car started fine for a while, had to put a new front pump in, started it on the lift to check line pressures; everything was good. Took it off the lift went to start it, and it grinded. Put a new starter in it as the gear on this was worn, still grinds. the car will start but its getting worse. now its to the point were it wont turn over just grinds the first or second try but the second or third try it will grind and start???? im way lost can anyone help me??

[John S Peterson]

Best thing to at this point is to take it back apart while very carefully paying attention to every nut and bolt and part used in this assembly. Sounds crazy, but I,ve seen flexplates put in backwards, junk on the crankshaft not allowing the flexplate to seat properly, and that's a few items..but if we don't take the time to carefully inspect upon dissassembly because we say "hey I checked everything it can't be that [i]thingy [i]but we are so busy looking at teeth or whatever, we missed the probably small reason why.
Remember that 5.0 doesn't know it's in a Cobra.....so why should the starter work any different than in a 5.0 with a C-4 in a Mustang or ?
John.....

[LX 90]

i know what you mean by go over everything again..... But when i replaced the front pump i did not remove the flexplate... so i know for fact that did not change.......

[Juggernaut]

LX 90, you said the old starter gear was worn, how do the teeth on the flexplate look?

Are you sure you have the right starter for your set-up? Don't trust your local parts store guy, I learned my lesson!

[LX 90]

Yeah the 90 uses an AOD. however a popular swap with the mustang is to go to the C4 3 speed. Thats what i have done. The flexplate looked fine just some normal wear.