Cobra vs Today's Cars

[zzmac]

A lot of you guys have experience with racing your cobras. What's a list of today's hot cars (stock domestic & import) that a 500 HP cobra would beat in a race (assuming drivers were the same and no 1/4 miles)?

[Tim Brewer]

All...................

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Tim Brewer

All...................

You'd be in for a surprise.

[John Seagraves]

All----------------------------

[undy]

My 600+ hp Cobra would get totally destroyed on a track event (HPDE) by my 509 rwhp 07 Z06, driven by the same "skilled" driver. 40 plus years of technology has improved the breed. There are some here that drive Hondas as their daily driver that might argue the point though, thinking all other new cars perform similarly..


To those that can pop a sub-7.40 Nurburgring time with their Cobra, I will humbly retract my previous statement.

Dave

[Bailey]

The answer depends absolutely on which Cobra, how it is prepped, and which street car.
Just like you cannot compare a C4 to a C6 Vette.
There are some very good cars in current production, and some really poorly designed replicas.

[Tommy]

I don't believe there is a single correct answer to the original question. When I ran autocross, there were few modern cars I could stay with because the courses were so tight. I did much better on middle length tracks where top speeds maxed out around 100 MPH. They gave me room to use my power/weight advantage. On tracks with long stretches that allowed top speeds above 140, the Cobra's terrible aerodynamic drag was a disadvantage against modern cars with slippery shapes. The bottom line is that no one car is better than all other cars on all tracks. This Corvette C5 Z06 owner learned that a few years ago when we met at a track day event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz7tLHkOiRE

[WildBill3]

You may both have been novices but you clearly out drove him...

[zzmac]

Let's say the cobra is a Superformance, Roush 402/427, with upgraded brakes and track tires and we'll give the following cars track tires too. Nissan GT-R, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Corvette, BMW. Would the cobra beat any of these and if so which ones (Pick the top model of each car you'd think it would beat.)

[CobraDan]

Pagani Zonda Roadster FC127 650HP

SSC Ultimate Aero 1046HP

Leblanc Mirabeau 700HP

Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 750HP

Koenigsegg CCR 806HP

Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren 626HP

Porsche Carrera GT 612HP

[car4jim]

The show "Top Gear" keeps a list of all the cars they have featured/raced and the track times each one achieved using their closed course and driver. I'm not sure if they have ever featured the Cobra and the associated track time. This might be another source to answer this question. Well...I just checked their web site and they do not appear to have run a Cobra. The link to their list is included below. I guess someone could speculate when an original car (or your car) falls in the pecking-order.

http://www.topgear.com/us/assets/tracktimes.html

[vettestr]

Tommy,
Good run. It is all about working what you have or being able to use what you do have. The Z06 is clearly no slouch but was out classed on this day and track. Why were you able to run quicker than the Z06, I am asking you to identify your cars advantages or disadvantages and ignore any driver skill variables? I guess it would only be fare to ask for the same comparison to as delivered 1966? Cobra. Not sure if that should be a big block because of your HP or a small block to match weight. Ford's 1971 claim for a Boss 351 was 330 hp (246 kW) @ 5400, 370 lb·ft (502 N·m) @ 4000. Does this answer todays technology cars to yesterdays and what cars if so?

I suspect you have higher HP #'s and weigh about 30 percent less than the 3200 pound Vette. Your a shorter wheelbase with less track width to apply about the same suspension makes an interesting mix, is this an advantage or disadvantage overall?

stolen info from .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C5_Z06
The stock Z06 weighs in about 3200 LBS with the LS6 engine = The initial 2001 LS6 produced 385 bhp (287.1 kW) and 385 lb·ft (522 N·m), but the engine was modified for 2002 through 2004 to produce 405 bhp (302 kW) and 400 lb·ft (542 N·m) of torque.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by vettestr

Tommy,
Good run. It is all about working what you have or being able to use what you do have. The Z06 is clearly no slouch but was out classed on this day and track. Why were you able to run quicker than the Z06, I am asking you to identify your cars advantages or disadvantages and ignore any driver skill variables? I guess it would only be fare to ask for the same comparison to as delivered 1966? Cobra. Not sure if that should be a big block because of your HP or a small block to match weight. Ford's 1971 claim for a Boss 351 was 330 hp (246 kW) @ 5400, 370 lb·ft (502 N·m) @ 4000. Does this answer todays technology cars to yesterdays and what cars if so?

I suspect you have higher HP #'s and weigh about 30 percent less than the 3200 pound Vette. Your a shorter wheelbase with less track width to apply about the same suspension makes an interesting mix, is this an advantage or disadvantage overall?

stolen info from .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C5_Z06
The stock Z06 weighs in about 3200 LBS with the LS6 engine = The initial 2001 LS6 produced 385 bhp (287.1 kW) and 385 lb·ft (522 N·m), but the engine was modified for 2002 through 2004 to produce 405 bhp (302 kW) and 400 lb·ft (542 N·m) of torque.

My guess is that my car and the Z06 had similar power to work with, but I had two big advantages and one smaller one. My biggest advantage was the 800# in additional weight he was carrying. Second, he was running whatever tires come standard on that car and I was running Hoosier racing tires. Lastly, this was not my first track day, so my car was pretty well sorted out(e.g., corner weights, tire pressures and shock absorber settings).

The earlier reference to Top Gear's lap times got me thinking. I noted that two of the fastest times on their web sites were by the same car, one with and one without a rear wing/spoiler. The Koenigsegg CCX dropped its lap time by almost three seconds by improving its aero down force. I think that says a lot about why Cobras became obsolete as race cars as the competition embraced aerodynamics back in the 60s. That is also why I believe they probably wouldn't fare well against modern supercars on most tracks.

[Tim Brewer]

Oh, I missed the part about "no 1/4 miles". I would say then that the Cobra wouldn't fair as well against cars like the ZR1 or even a Zo6. The Cobra would struggle against most any sport car with even less HP.

[cobrarob]

I am surprised that in this thread no one has mentioned how the cobra stacks up against the FORD GT , or is the FORD GT considered old now a days

[vettestr]

Thanks Tommy,
Thanks for your thoughts. When the Cobra was running Vettes back in the day they had the same weight advantage. The 800 pound difference between your car and the Z06 was a today remains about the same I would guess. That 800 pounds equates to, what a 25 percent horsepower advantage. Changes 8 pounds per horse to only 6 pounds per horse. Said a bit different 400 horse needs to be 533 horsepower to carry an extra 800 LBS

The tire difference between track rubber and street rubber would actually let you put some of the power to the ground. The suspension on your Car I am again betting is the latest greatest stuff available for a C4. The bigger asset would be having sorted the car out and your comfort/experience.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by cobrarob

I am surprised that in this thread no one has mentioned how the cobra stacks up against the FORD GT , or is the FORD GT considered old now a days

There is really no comparison.

[cobrarob]

Sal

By the looks of all the cobras you have had and sold and with your comment can I assume you now have a FORD GT

Rob

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by cobrarob

Sal

By the looks of all the cobras you have had and sold and with your comment can I assume you now have a FORD GT

Rob

Haha, no. I WISH I had a Ford GT. But I've tuned and built enough of them to make the statement that unless you've got a purpose built maximum performance Cobra, you ain't touching a Ford GT in any respect, especially if it's got a few bolt ons.

[REAL 1]

I have both. CSX4206 with a '65 427 NASCAR SO built to pretty much all original specs and an 2005 FGT.

The FGT stock is pretty much plugged up from the factory for what else...emmisions reasons. Gotta keep the EPA and DOT gremlins happy. Stock tires are terrible (Goodyear) for any serious tracking. The stock Goodyears are good for normal road work (in warm weather, put it away in cold weather) but forget the track. Top Gear ran a stock FGT. Put a good set of tires, not even track tires and a tune from Heffner performance and its a transformed car. It runs the way it was supposed to. You go from stock 550hp to 580 hp with just a tune. Add exhaust and/or pully two easy quick bolt ons and the ante ups again. With pulley (easy and quick from Ford Performance) your up to 700 hp roughly with tune.

However, for the average mortal even a stock FGT has a performance envelope way out beyond what most can handle. Its handling characteristics are much different then a Cobras. Its a mid engined car compared to a front engined car.

On the track times and track used by top gear I seriously doubt a Cobra built to original specs like mine could compete with an FGT or any other of todays super cars. In a straight line over a short distance (1/8 mile) again, staying with the original formulas for both cars and from my seat of the pants experience, Cobra has the edge initially, but once the FGT gets her legs after that 1/8 point get out of her way.

The Cobra has that street brawler, "don't "F" with me attitude on the street. Thats what really made the 427 famous and put it on the map. Ken Miles' famous sprint from 0-100-0 in 13.8 seconds. Not that it was a bad track racer in its day in its class with multiple SCCA wins in A Production and it was designed to take on the Corvette Grand Sport and Ferrari 275LM which it didn't because none of them were ever homolgated or homolgated in time... but that little 0-100-0 run is what made it famous overnight.

The new FGT can outperform the original Ford GT (commonly referred to as the GT40) on the track and in just about ever other way. The original Ford GT (GT40) could out perform the original Cobra and ran in a higher class to boot. Soooo you figure out which can out perform the other on the track... new FGT or Cobra. The answer is self evident.

As Carroll Shelby has said the Cobra was really outdated (289) before it was built. The 427 was a leap forward chasis and suspension wise but it is light years behind the new FGT not to even mention it was outdated by the original Ford GT.

Lift up the rear clam shell of a FGT. No discussion necessary. The design and chasis speak for themselves.

The FGT is an updated version of the orignal GT40 built to meet todays well at least 2005 and 2006 EPA and DOT standards that the original could never meet but neither could the original Cobra.

But...The FGT and Cobra are apples and oranges. Both are special cars in a different way. I love them both and both provide more performance then I or the average guy here could ever hope to extract from them and both if not handled correctly will bite you in a serious way. Both perform differently and each does some things better then the other. Cobra is unrivaled in that bare knuckled in your face muscle car "thing". It takes you back to 1965 like no other car can. The FGT puts you in a modern GT40 that still harkens back to 1967. Both are representatives of American automotive prowess at the top of the food chain. The FGT dispatches its prey with a scalpel. The Cobra blugends its prey to death with a sledge hammer. Pick your weapon.

They are both still "super heros" in the car world. Doubt me? Then all you have to do is to watch the reaction of people who see them when they go out in public. If I likened each to a super hero to match their personalities the FGT is Iron Man..., powerful, fast, tough, smart, cutting edge and with seemingly enough power and armament to dispatch its adversaries at will. The 427 Cobra...Hellboy. Definitely Hellboy. Rough, gruff, emensly powerful, loud, acts like a bull in a china shop with that fearless persona and not the most tactful... but you be the one to tell it..

Takes care.