Shelby little involvement in creating the Cobra

[Nedsel]

Uh-oh. Sal, does that mean that when Shelby goes to meet his maker all of our Cobras will vaporize? That doesn't sound fair.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Uh-oh. Sal, does that mean that when Shelby goes to meet his maker all of our Cobras will vaporize? That doesn't sound fair.

LOL, not quite what I mean Ned . I meant if Carroll never existed, the Cobra wouldn't either. Regardless of other people and companies involved, the Cobra exists because of Carroll.

[Tom Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

take Carroll Shelby out of existance, and you have no Cobra.

I think quite a few names could be added to that list...
The Hurlocks, John Tojeiro, Alan Turner, Henry Ford II, Holman and Moody, Enzo Ferrari, Don Sullivan, Dean Moon, etc.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Tom Kirkham

I think quite a few names could be added to that list...
The Hurlocks, John Tojeiro, Alan Turner, Henry Ford II, Holman and Moody, Enzo Ferrari, Don Sullivan, Dean Moon, etc.

I disagree, Tom. While those people were involved with what actually became the Cobra as we know it, without Carroll's idea, there is no car. Without those people, Carroll just finds someone else to make his dream come true. His idea was American V8 in a well handling roadster. It wasn't Ford V8 in an AC Ace. That's just were the idea wound up.

It still comes down to no Carroll = no Cobra. There is no one other person involved that the same could be said for.

[Tom Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

His idea was American V8 in a well handling roadster.

Well "his idea" was also done by...
Cad Allard j2X, Scagletti Corvette, Corvace (AC Ace w/Chevy), Cunningham Specials, Reventlow's Scarab, Max Balchowsky's Old Yeller, Ak Miller’s Caballo de Hierro, all of these cars predate the Cobra and, no doubt, were an inspiration for the Cobra.

Lets face it, we all owe Enzo Ferrari a debt of gratitude. If Ferrari had not thumbed his nose at Ford, Ford would have owned Ferrari and there would have been absolutely no reason for Ford to invest in CS and the Cobra. With out Ford's money CS didn't have a chance to build more than a handful of cars. Look multi-millionaires like Cunningham and Reventlow couldn't pull it off. Who else other than Ford would or could have invested so much? Remember CS had all ready tried GM with the Scaglietti Corvette. They only built three. GM was not about to help anything compete with the Corvette.

"Without those people, Carroll just finds someone else to make his dream come true." Who???

[HealeyRick]

Anyone want to see what CS said about it? Dave MacDonald had a big influence on construction of the Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe - Racing Legend Dave MacDonald, images, videos, Shelby Cobra, Corvette, Indianapolis 500 NASCAR, Dave MacDonald Cobra Daytona Coupe with Pete Brock

[Cobrabill]

[quote=Power Surge;Pretty simple to me.[/QUOTE]

Even simpler-take the people CS hired out of existance-you have no Cobra either as it would have just been an idea with no-one to execute it.The Chicken $hit farmer gets wayyyyyyy too much credit.

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I'll make it real simple..... take Carroll Shelby out of existance, and you have no Cobra.
Pretty simple to me.

Amen!

[lovehamr]

Although I think Carol is quite the whore these days, I agree with Sal. The one constant in all the possibilities in the Cobra lineage is CS. For instance; if he'd been able to get cheby motors and big Healy body/chassis what would we know as Cobras today? I bet hardly anyone would even remember AC. So regardless of whether he came up with the name Cobra in a dream or that's just BS you still have one equation; no CS= no Cobra.

Steve

[What'saCobra?]

Hey, Pop! Tell me that part about the drunk lads under the bridge again!

It's all so edifyin".

Did you know they made small cannons during the war? Wow! How could they ever survive without Mr. Shelby?

IMJO- without Mr. Remington and Mr. Moon, the entire enterprise would have been just a wet dream.

[Trevor Legate]

If I were a betting man (and I'm not) I'd put a few shekels on the fact that AC would have produced its own V8-powered Ace. It would have been Ken Rudd who would have pulled the effective but heavy Ford straight six, that he installed in the first place, and replaced it with the new lightweight Ford lump as and when he could have got his hands on one. It would probably have been called the Ace V8. It would not have had an illustrious racing history and its handling might have been suspect since Phil Remington would not have got his hands on it, nor would Ken Miles have driven the living daylights out of it. Would it have raced at Le Mans etc? Yes, since those "winos under the bridge" (lovely analogy, pure class) had previously run a number of Aces at Le Mans, one of which was a very elegant special-bodied car that makes a Daytona look lumpy (ducks for cover :-)

And what ever was 'wrong' with the Ace - check out its racing history with SCCA!! Don't sound like no dog to me.....

AC would not be a forgotten marque today, cos us members of the AC Owners Club would keep the flag flying and the cars running.

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

If I were a betting man (and I'm not) I'd put a few shekels on the fact that AC would have produced its own V8-powered Ace. It would have been Ken Rudd who would have pulled the effective but heavy Ford straight six, that he installed in the first place, and replaced it with the new lightweight Ford lump as and when he could have got his hands on one. It would probably have been called the Ace V8.

Would Rudd have gone for the Ford V8 or a domestic UK motor. I believe The 6 was sourced from the Mk2 Zephyr. It was soon after the Ford small block apeared that Rover produced it's aluminium Buick derived V8. I think the P5 apeared in about 66 with the 3.5

I reckon it would have been a better motor for a sporting car power plant at the time considering it's light weight.

The Rover 3.5 motor has evolved into several successful racing engines. I think the Repco Brabham V8 is based on that bottom end.

Cheers

[kris-kincaid]

Has anybody ever heard the theory that if a room full of monkeys were allowed to type for a million years, they would eventually reproduce all the classics in the British Museum? Probably not relevant to banality of the current thread.

[Trevor Legate]

Hi Jeff

Indeed AC was very much into 'other things' but its lucrative government contract was in the 'automotive' category - just. BUT shall we consider, as well, that car companies such as Lotus and Porsche (off the top of my head - there are others) made their real profits from outside contractor work for other businesses, not the building and flogging of expensive motors...? Ask GM if there's money in making cars

I have to agree with WhazzaThingy that the insult hurled in AC's direction was beyond bad manners, no matter how many glasses of sherry said gentleman had quaffed. That's the point where respect goes out the window.

anyway, all this hypothetic nonsense is so far into the realms of If, But and Maybe that is not worth discussing further. Ciao.

[Don]

The AACA does not have an on-line version of their magazine. Should anyone have the recent edition and a scanner, would provide additional history and background on A.C.

1937 A.c.16/80

[KCKingCobra]

(wuts the "S" stand for?)

Scary fast, maybe????????????????

KC

[RedCSX1]

CSX= Carroll Shelby Experimental

There are so many idiots in the world, why do so many have to end up on this web site? It amazes me the amount of hate for Carroll Shelby on a site dedicated to the Shelby Cobra!

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by RedCSX1

CSX= Carroll Shelby Experimental

There are so many idiots in the world, why do so many have to end up on this web site? It amazes me the amount of hate for Carroll Shelby on a site dedicated to the Shelby Cobra!

Maybe a quote from Wikipedia is in order?

No really, there has to be some good reference books that document this. I don't care who is right, just want to know what is correct.

E

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Great Asp

No really, there has to be some good reference books that document this. I don't care who is right, just want to know what is correct.
E

You might start with the 1997 SAAC Registry, page #37. There is also an explanation of COX & COB terms on page # 334 of the 2008 World Registry produced by SAAC.

[mhs6631]

In 1964 I saw my 1st Cobra in person at a fair. The car was red with black interior. Nowhere on the car did it say Shelby. On the hood was an ac emblem and on the rear trunk lid. I believe it said 'powered by Ford' on each side. In searching car magazines to learn more about this beautiful creation, the term ac cobra was universally used to refer to the car. In 1968, my neighbor purchased a mustang shelby gt 500. It said shelby on the hood and trunk. I believe the mustangs were the 1st auto to be graced with the shelby name. Only years later did c. shelby proclaim the ac cobra to be henceforth called the shelby cobra-long after production ceased.