CSX= Carroll Shelby Experimental

There are so many idiots in the world, why do so many have to end up on this web site? It amazes me the amount of hate for Carroll Shelby on a site dedicated to the Shelby Cobra!

Maybe a quote from Wikipedia is in order? :LOL:

No really, there has to be some good reference books that document this. I don't care who is right, just want to know what is correct.

E

I suppose if enough people were to complain to Wiki, they might actually do something.

:D

It doesn't matter if you love the guy or hate him. He did create the car.

Kind of a shame the car is mis-represented like this.

.

You might start with the 1997 SAAC Registry, page #37. There is also an explanation of COX & COB terms on page # 334 of the 2008 World Registry produced by SAAC.

ac cobra not shelby cobra
 

In 1964 I saw my 1st Cobra in person at a fair. The car was red with black interior. Nowhere on the car did it say Shelby. On the hood was an ac emblem and on the rear trunk lid. I believe it said 'powered by Ford' on each side. In searching car magazines to learn more about this beautiful creation, the term ac cobra was universally used to refer to the car. In 1968, my neighbor purchased a mustang shelby gt 500. It said shelby on the hood and trunk. I believe the mustangs were the 1st auto to be graced with the shelby name. Only years later did c. shelby proclaim the ac cobra to be henceforth called the shelby cobra-long after production ceased.

[quote=BDHE; And, so far, 'Ol $hell's legal machine is undefeated./QUOTE]

You would be wrong as both FFR and Superformance beat the chicken farmer in court.

[quote=CobraEd;Kind of a shame the car is mis-represented like this.[/QUOTE]


Ed,once more with clarity,please.

You're correct that the leaf spring cars for the US (CSX) did not say Shelby on them. They used one of three different Cobra emblems on the nose and boot and Powered By Ford on the sides. The COB and COX cars used AC emblems on the nose and boot and no Powered By Ford emblems. Early cars did not have A.C. Cars foot box tags, later leaf spring cars did have this tag.

427 Cobras had one of three foot box tags. The comp. and S/C models, along with some street cars, used foot box tags that read Manufactured by Shelby American Inc. (No snake emblem on the tag) The narrow hipped 427's as well as some mid-numbered cars used the same A.C. Cars tag as the leaf spring cars. The third plate used on most cars over CSX3300 included the 1967 style coiled snake on the Manufactured by Shelby American Inc. plate. Some early 427's unsold by late 1966 were "updated" to '67 models with new VIN plates.
So it is the 427 Cobras that first displayed the Shelby American name.

Let's see, AC cars shipped rollers to Shelby in California early on (289 Models). Shelby installed motor and trans.
Hmmmm, doesn't Superformance and Backdraft do the same thing?
Not talking about the 427 versions in this segment
Shelby was the key, Fords money and ACs hardware were the backbone

Mark

cs
 

same deal with 427's

First one had a 260 ci V8 install by Dean Moon's guys. Some people involvement did not come onto the scene till much later. But Carroll's idea and he was the Idea guy, Boss and Marketer.

Yes Morgan, it was a 260 and he and Moon went out to find Corvettes to race and couldn't find any. The motor that was shipped to AC in England for initial fitting was a 221 and is owned by a guy in Scotland. The 260 was the first installed and driven in California.

Mark

Anyone remember the story in one of the kit car mags. about the guy that claimed to have built all the 427 cobras and had some templets and patterns to back it up? Shelby said that this guy was full of s--t. Is there anywhere I can read that again? Thanks.

It's the personality that counts...
 

While the general thrust of the remarks so far seem to be either crediting Shelby for his inspiration of using an American engine in a foreign car or minimizing his contribution, I believe , after talking to several people who were around in the '60s, that while it was true it was not Shelby's idea alone to put an American small block engine in a European car, the thing that made his idea "jel" was that he not only was offering a car but himself along with it as as a promotable personality. It's the same thing as Roush today. Jack Roush is not as slick a salesman, and probably a frumpy dresser, so he didn't get the contract to build Ford GTs and Saleen did though Roush had many more facilities and at least 20 Ford contracts already at the time. Saleen was the more promotable personality at the time. Car companies not only choose products to promote but often personalities to tie in with the products and Shelby, with his LeMans win behind him, cowboy ten gallon hat, Texas twang , etc. etc. was far more promotable than all the guys who installed V8s in foreign cars before him. And Shelby did dutifully man the booth at the New York Auto Show where they premiered the Cobra, and many other booths besides..and is still doing it several decades later. So while it's true he received Cobras ready-made except for engine and trans from the UK, without his charisma and personality, Ford wouldn't have written him the check to get the ball rolling.

As far as comparisons with Cunningham, Cunningham never had the drive to keep competing with his cars at LeMans, where Shelby did, and it was the racing successes of the Cobra that built the reputation of the marque. I knew Briggs Cunningham but consider his car activities to have been more of a rich man's hobby. I never met Reventlow but I don't think he was ever interested in production street models, so to say Cunningham and Reventlow failed while Shelby succeeded isn't quite accurate. Cunningham made street models but they were biased toward luxury, more so than the Cobras, and Reventlow was only concerned with the next race car. It was when his F1 car was a complete flop that he yielded to the writing on the wall that he wasn't cut out to be an automaker.

I agree with Mr. Legate, that to characterize AC as a company with no money at the time Shelby approached them is wrong; they were not about to go broke and it has come out since that they still had about 100 Bristol engines in stock, enough to probably last them a year or two. It's just that Shelby was bringing the promise of working with a legendary American automaker with him.

Later on it seems they regretted giving the Texan so much rope, so they he got more publicity than they did but the fact is that they weren't doing that much with the AC roadster and it would be but a mere footnote in history if it wasn't for the Texan

[quote=trularin;890663]Wikipedia is one of the most inaccurate sources of information when it come to historical events.

Corporations pay teams to monitor key points to edit out anything that is not in favor of that corporation.

AND, anyone can write whatever they want.

Go edit it and see how long it lasts.

I agree.

WIKIPEDIA IS CRAP!

I hate it too!

MM

Psst! History Buff!
It isn't sensible for an informed historian to mention any reason(s) lance went out of the race car business without mentioning the IRS and the issuance of a historically significant IRS ruling about Lance's activities. i leave it to you to get the rest of the story for yourself, as i know you would prefer to do...

IT is the foundational reason why CS was able to acquire the use of Princeton Street location and hire Phil Remmington.

I think the "Cobra" mystique is comprised of several separate things: A fine spartan postwar British sportscar with timeless lines, the platform of choice for some excellent Ford powerplants, the Shelby racing team (drivers, pit crews, engineering, and team manager Carroll Smith), and of course the street production side. Shelby was amazingly effective at bringing them all together. Would there be a "Cobra" legend as we know it today without Shelby... NO WAY. While ultimately all of the "real" work was done by others, he is the one indispensable man in all of this, and the "magic" ingredient. For all his faults, he put his name on the line, was successful, and he deserves significant recognition.

I have a large numbered photograph print hanging in my garage of the Shelby shop in the 60s with numerous Cobras and GT40s in various stages of being built. These cars were all taken apart, and up on stands with guys all over the place working on them. Doesnt that mean that Shelby built them?? WTF!

What I don't understand is how for 40 years, it was always a "Shelby Cobra". The car was always considered to be a Shelby creation by virtually everyone, and now all of a sudden in 2008, it is up for grabs?????????

I just don't get it :confused:


.

One definition of luck is putting yourself in a position to take advantage of opportunity when it comes along. As I recall (and I'm NO historian) Shelby had been shopping his idea for a race car around for quite some time, then he was at lunch with a reporter (forget his name) who happened to mention that AC would no longer have the engine available, around the same time he found out about the lightweight Ford smallblock and jumped on the opportunity. If that is true, Shelby "created" the Cobra concept... IMHO it doesn't really matter that the concept of a American engine in a European body wasn't new - those cars were not Cobras, and certainly alot of people contributed to the design and development of the Cobra.

I'm admittedly a little jaded on the value of this kind of stuff; it makes good reading and I would like to see those individuals get credit for their accomplishments, but heck, most Americans still believe that Henry Ford invented the automobile!

Dan