Shelby little involvement in creating the Cobra

[Nedsel]

H'buff, the car that AC tested in the UK with the 221 cubic inch engine was CSX 2000. They used an existing engine to set up the mounts for it, the transmission, etc. After testing, they removed the engine and shipped the car as the prototype to Shelby in L.A. where the new 260 cubic inch engine was installed in Dean Moon's shop.

Franklin, a well-known Australian named Peter Brock was killed a year or so ago in a road accident and it was widely assumed it was the Cobra-related writer/ photojournalist that was killed. As the car he was driving was a new Daytona Coupe, this was an easy mistake. Thankfully, as we all know, such was not the case.

[Don]

Was the Allard the first English car to use an American engine, Ford flathead V-8, Lincoln Zephyr V-12, Cadillac OHV V-8 ?

" Sydney J. Allard was an Englishman who built his first car to enter in the uniquely British form of motorsport called "trials" in the two years just before the World War II. Trials? Think hill climb meets Jeeper's Jamboree on often-muddy forest trails. Allard's affection for things American led him to use the Ford flathead V8 and even Lincoln Zephyr V12 for power in his homebuilt specials, and he saw enough success that others asked him to build cars for them. "

" Allard formed his company in 1946...."

" Allard favored off the shelf Detroit V-8s "

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...FREE/810149983

[rdinkins]

Hello, I'm a new 1966 Kit owner and love the car. I'm trying to do a little history on the car and I know a couple things and thought you all could help. One, the car was built in 1985 by a California kit company that was supposdly sued by Ford & Shelby for making an exact replica. I was told it was one of 37 made by this company, but can't find any other information. Anything would be helpful. Rick

[mrmustang]

His first post resurrected a 1+ year old dead thread

Originally Posted by rdinkins

I'm getting ready to purchase my first Shelby Cobra replica and I'm trying to do some homework. The guy I'm buying it from is telling me it's 1 of 37 of this particular kit as the company that produced this kit was sued for making an EXACT duplicate sometime in the 1980's. I have looked and looked and can't find anything about replica company that was sued for making exact replicas in the 1980's. Any info would be helpful. I love the car, I think it's priced fairly I just want to dig up some history if possible. Thanks for helping a Newbie. Rick from Noblesville Indiana.

When asked the following question

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Perhaps a little more information and some pictures would help.

He does not respond, but then makes the following post 6 months later, resurrecting a thread long dead and buried for 8 years (last old post dated 2008 before Rdinkins resurrection post)

He has not logged back in to the site since that time.

Originally Posted by rdinkins

Hello, I'm a new 1966 Kit owner and love the car. I'm trying to do a little history on the car and I know a couple things and thought you all could help. One, the car was built in 1985 by a California kit company that was supposdly sued by Ford & Shelby for making an exact replica. I was told it was one of 37 made by this company, but can't find any other information. Anything would be helpful. Rick

Personally, I suspect a troll of the site, one made in a way so that the typical infighting would continue unabated. Quite simply, a way for someone to get their rocks off at the expense of the members of this forum. Whether by design, or quite innocent in nature is for anyone to guess.

In the mean time, let's face it, he got quite a few of you to let your ego(s) get the better of you.


I'll leave it at that, as I suspect this thread will soon be locked down and once again allowed to die a timely death in the archives.

Bill S.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Personally, I suspect a troll of the site, one made in a way so that the typical infighting would continue unabated. Quite simply, a way for someone to get their rocks off at the expense of the members of this forum. Whether by design, or quite innocent in nature is for anyone to guess.

In the mean time, let's face it, he got quite a few of you to let your ego(s) get the better of you.


I'll leave it at that, as I suspect this thread will soon be locked down and once again allowed to die a timely death in the archives.

Bill S.

I will second that. The horse is once again completely dead!

[LMH]

You should start a new thread about your car and ask for info there. Post some photo's of your car in the thread too.
Larry

[mdross1]

Another can of worms for some to worry about. I own exactly what I have always wanted a small two seater sports car/hot rod with a very large American engine setup to do what I love to do very well. That cannot be taken away no matter how deep into history anyone digs.

[Tommy]

Dammed zombie threads are hard to kill.

[Rickd]

The Shelby team had a lot to do with the recommended / requested chassis modifications to accept the American V-8 motors as well. Shelby put the program together .. got the initial car to test .. got the 260 V8 from Ford. That initial series of "road tests" by the automotive press was pure Shelby marketing. He had ONE car .. but repainted it for each magazine that tested the car so when the July car mags hit the stands there were pictures of a yellow cobra, a red one, white one and a black one .. i believe. Gave the impression that the Shelby Cobra was in production .. and they got orders. No Carroll Shelby and the "cobra" never would have existed. AC would have never had the international brand awareness that Shelby gave the company .. by using their "donor" body on a beefed up chassis, with an American V8.

[Tommy]

[mr bruce]

The Mighty Tin

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Power Surge View Post
I'll make it real simple..... take Carroll Shelby out of existance, and you have no Cobra.
Pretty simple to me.

I've said this over and over again. If Carroll hadn't grabbed the AC Ace as the starting point for the racing Cobra, the AC Ace would have disappeared just like the Berkeley. And we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Had Carroll made another choice as his starting point, the outcome would probably have been quite different, both in the evolution of the car to today's popularity, and in the winning race outcome.

[LMH]

You guys know this thread is 7 years old, right? The question asked by rdinkins in posting #69, which brought this back up, is about his car and not about the history of the Cobra.
Just wanted to point that out.
Larry

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by LMH

You guys know this thread is 7 years old, right?
Larry

Sure Larry, and we are over 50..... hehehhe


How are ya bud?

[LMH]

51 actually.
Larry

[REAL 1]

I will second what someone said above. I don't care what the Brits say. No Shelby no Cobra. It is just that simple.

Further, but for Carroll Shelby..... AC Cars and all their cars including the Ace would be little more than a footnote in automotive history. The end.

[Trevor Legate]

On behalf of all the Brits - I concur. Of course there would not have been a Cobra - that's a statement of the Bleedin' Obvious. Even a Brit could figger that out, but it's about 75% sure there would have been a V8-powered Ace as both AC and Ken Rudd were on that case. But it would never have been so well developed, the 'legend' would never have been born (and hyped to the heavens) and the current unseemly scramble to 'invest' the kids inheritance would never have occurred. AC would have bumbled along for who knows how long? They did make some good cars but development was lacking as they thought they could do it all themselves. Either way, it had a good run since 1901. Not bad for a small, useless company. The UK has a history of small auto companies that came and went and left some good cars in their wake - Jensen, TVR, Marcos etc etc

I always amuses me that when Shelby American won the FIA GT Championship in 1965, the press coverage in the USA was zero as it was such a minor victory. And it remained at zero for years until the hype began. (There was a fairly major UK involvement in that class victory, but we don't talk about that either do we...

On the matter of the Ace - an historical footnote maybe, but check out its SCCA results first, before putting the boot in.

[LMH]

I think without a doubt a V8 Ace would have been built. Maybe it would have been the Ace RS289, since Rudd would have almost surely been involved?
Larry

[Buzz]

I think it's also worth saying that it's equally fair logic to recognize that without the Ace, there would be no Cobra either - as we know it, that is; though Shelby's dogged determination almost certainly would have led him to forge some sort of a deal between a sports car manufacturer and a US engine supplier.

The progeny of that marriage quite likely would have been a fast and formidable race car. It may even have been called a Cobra too, considering the possibility that a similar day with similar synaptic inputs and stimuli would lead Shelby to have the same eureka dream (or at least the likelihood that he would've stumbled across the acronym for COpper BRAzing at some point).

If such a car did come into existence, though, would it have posessed the striking, almost sexual beauty of that Tojeiro-designed shape that is just as critical a factor in the generation spanning appeal and charisma of the Cobra as it's legendary performance? I say possibly but unlikely.

The Cobra was a perfect storm of unlikely events and characters, all coaxed, cajoled, bluffed, bullied, inspired and led by one driven, remarkable man who pulled it all together and made it all happen. Take away a critical element like the AC Ace, and Shelby may still have built a car - but it would not likely have been the Cobra that we know today. Probably not even close.

[Trevor Legate]

All very true Buzz! When I first started on a Cobra book project circa 1979, I went to visit the handful of people in the UK who sold and owned Cobras and everyone said the same thing - it was the shape. The performance and noise was pretty darn good as well (of course) but the first thing that grabbed them was the look of the thing. It's is the perfect sports car shape even it was 'designed' more by accident (although Alan Turner at AC deserves huge credit for smoothing out the lines of the Tojeiro/Barchetta that AC purchased from John Tojeiro)

Having read the Shelby biography, and believed some of it, he always intended using the Cobra name because to him, it sounded right. It could have also been applied to the Austin Healey 3000 had Donald Healey liked the idea, or a Jensen or an Aston Martin. It just happened to be an AC. Fortunately.....