Pin drive bolts splitting Help Please - Page 3

Dominik · #1 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 04:13 PM

Yes, that is one of Lynn's (Trigo's) design.

Check their taper and if they are concentric. If not, improve it :-)

I would prefer a hex head (5/8"), if possible. It would not crack. A 1/2" thread in a 3/4" material would leave 1/8" of wall (?).

If I remember correctly, they once were $2 each. But $6 would be reasonable.
Anybody remembers wheels not coming off?

The taper is not needed, if the adapter is centered on the hub. However, most adapters come with a taper seat for the studs. Not the later ones from Vintage, though.

Dom

David Kirkham · #2 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 04:39 PM

Dom,

Isn't it a little late in South Africa?

I think the only way to improve a nut that is not concentric is to see if it floats next to a Great White.

Bummer deal they are all not the same. I'll need to make and stock different programs.

I'll get right back with you. We are making the CAD drawing right now.

David

LMH · #3 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 04:22 PM

David
My Trigo pins look exactly as the photo you posted. I am not using my wheels at the moment, so if you need pins, I can send you mine. (or a studed hub from a Mustang too)
Let me know if I can help.
larry

LMH · #4 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 06:05 PM

Looks like it would work to me. I think Vintage wheels uses a similar design.
Larry

David Kirkham · #5 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 06:09 PM

We will have some ready next week. Anyone who is interested let me know. The price is somewhat dependent on how many we make. You don't have to commit until I get the final price. The specialty steel place was closed today so I couldn't get pricing on the stainless. It is much more expensive in the smaller diameters and WAY more expensive than chromoly.

David

427PMS · #6 (**permalink**) 01-03-2009, 05:50 AM

Those do look good .If your going to make a batch I would be interested in a set of 20 for my car .

Chris

David Kirkham · #7 (**permalink**) 01-03-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 427PMS

Those do look good .If your going to make a batch I would be interested in a set of 20 for my car .

Chris

Chris,

Which type do you need? Tapered? (What angle). Length? Flat? Let me know and I'll work up a price on Monday when I can call the metal supplier.

David

Blas · #8 (**permalink**) 01-03-2009, 02:08 PM

David,
I have a new Trigo rim sitting in my garage if you need a reference for holes and I have the Trigo pin tool if you want to check a 5 pin fit-up. (Amazing the stuff you find in a clean garage... ) Everyone should also remember that Superformance cars only used Trigo rims early on. First they had steel wheels with fake hubs, then Trigo's and then WAW's. I don't know if the pins are all the same, (Dia and length) but I do know for sure that the spinners are different on Trigo and WAW rims...
edit:
I looked it up:
up to 300ish - steel wheels
300ish to 800ish - Trigo wheels
800ish and up - WAW wheels

I also find some notes about the taper angle changing from the early pins to the newer pins...quote...
"...early stud-bolts (green/brown) with the 1/2" allen-key tended to warp and expand, the later ones (silver) with the 12mm key seem not to be parallel looking at thread and barrel, plus the taper is not the same as the one on the adapter. no matter what you torque, it is prone to loosen..."

Interesting old thread on CC in "Shop Talk" area - search Trigo Pin - then read "Trigo pins binding" thread...

427PMS · #9 (**permalink**) 01-06-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Chris,

Which type do you need? Tapered? (What angle). Length? Flat? Let me know and I'll work up a price on Monday when I can call the metal supplier.

David

David ,
I have the same Trigo pins as in your picture
chris

Rick Parker · #10 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 06:24 PM

82 Degrees......is that a normal engineering angle for such an item of that diameter (?) I was thinking 60 degrees would be more common.

David Kirkham · #11 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

82 Degrees......is that a normal engineering angle for such an item?

Whether or not it is normal for THESE pins I can't say. However, 82 degrees is a standard counter bore for flat socket head cap screws and other items. Now, does that match the bore in the hub adapters...??? Who knows? I'd need an adapter to measure.

David

cdnus · #12 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 06:51 PM

David,
went out to the shop & dug up a spare new Vintage nut & gave a quick measure.
Taper-60 deg.
Overall length-.850
Dia-.750
Staight length ?-.735
Broached hex-12mm.-internal
Thread size-1/2"X20tpi.
Wheel hole depth-.750-.800

If these were made with a 1/4" tall hex-external, that would leave approx. 1/2" of purchase area in the wheel, would that be suffient?

Thanks Craig

David Kirkham · #13 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 07:13 PM

Craig,

I am surprised the Vintage wheels won't fit over a Trigo rim???

The Trigo unit is 1 inch tall (not counting the taper) so with a 1/4 hex it would be 3/4" of engagement which is fine. The overall length of the Trigo is 1.188 inches.

We have 1/2" of engagement on our cars + 0.3 inches of lead-in taper. The thread on the hub is a 1/8 pitch so that means you would have to have the knock off back off 4 complete revolutions before the flat part of our pin didn't engage any more. With a knock off that far backed off, I would think you would certainly both hear and feel something. Remember, with these cars, if something feels funny, IT PROBABLY IS!

Hopefully, everyone checks their knock offs BEFORE they drive down the road and not when they see their wheel passing them by on the freeway.

I would imagine if the Trigo units are 1 inch long (not counting the taper) then for the Vintage wheels are probably counter bored deep enough to accept the Trigo units--though someone would certainly need to check this.

Perhaps we could just make the Vintage (flat-bottomed pins) a little longer to make up for the difference.

David

cdnus · #14 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 07:59 PM

David,
I had checked for some reason a while ago how much material was left in the rim at the bottom of the holes & it didn't seem like much was there. I phoned Bob & he confirmed that they cannot be deepened for fear of breaking through the front.
So mine at least are limited to a total length of approx .750".
Someone with a different backspacing may have deeper holes, but I believe Vintage only supplies 1 style of nut regardless. I am unaware if they have changed to a non-tapered ( flat bottom) style of nut.

Thanks Craig

Dominik · #15 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 11:01 PM

David, you said:
"...so with a 1/4 hex it would be 3/4" of engagement (of thread) which is fine."

The thread must go all the way through, else you "bottom out" when fitting the nuts.
The wheel stud is too long!

And that the taper have different angles doesn't help either...

Yes, it was 1:30am, now it's 8am. I do the float test later - with red wine!

Dom

David Kirkham · #16 (**permalink**) 01-03-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Craig,

The Trigo unit is 1 inch tall (not counting the taper) so with a 1/4 hex it would be 3/4" of engagement which is fine. The overall length of the Trigo is 1.188 inches.

David

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominik

David, you said:
"...so with a 1/4 hex it would be 3/4" of engagement (of thread) which is fine."

The thread must go all the way through, else you "bottom out" when fitting the nuts.
The wheel stud is too long!

And that the taper have different angles doesn't help either...

Yes, it was 1:30am, now it's 8am. I do the float test later - with red wine!

Dom

Dom,

I didn't make myself very clear. I didn't mean 3/4" of engagement "of thread" I meant 3/4" engagement of the pin to the wheel.

David

David Kirkham · #17 (**permalink**) 01-03-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnus

David,
I had checked for some reason a while ago how much material was left in the rim at the bottom of the holes & it didn't seem like much was there. I phoned Bob & he confirmed that they cannot be deepened for fear of breaking through the front.
So mine at least are limited to a total length of approx .750".
Someone with a different backspacing may have deeper holes, but I believe Vintage only supplies 1 style of nut regardless. I am unaware if they have changed to a non-tapered ( flat bottom) style of nut.

Thanks Craig

Craig,

Do you have a special back-spacing on your rims? Can you measure your back spacing? Thanks!

David

peterv · #18 (**permalink**) 01-02-2009, 11:57 PM

Us guys in Cape Town are always awake !

David Kirkham · #19 (**permalink**) 01-03-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterv

Us guys in Cape Town are always awake !

Lions, hippos, asps, Cobras, Black Mambas, hyenas, jackals, politicians, Great Whites, elephants, rhinos, you name it...have to keep an eye out!

David

cdnus · #20 (**permalink**) 01-04-2009, 08:48 AM

David,
My wheels are pretty much standard Vintage that I purchased in Dec. 2004.
Front-HAO2F-4"backspace
Rear-HAO2R-4"backspace
At that time they offered 3.6" or 4" only.
I am certain if you contacted Bob @ Vintage he would be thrilled to speak with you about your nuts (LOL), as I know he has had quality problems in the past & he would be very happy to secure a quality supplier like yourself

Thanks Craig