Pin drive bolts splitting Help Please

[butz999]

If you are needing a count you can put me down for 20 of the size to fit the Vintage wheels.

[PaulProe]

Everyone is throwing around torque values, Loctite/No Loctite, Red/Blue but it really depends on the brand and style of wheel and pin drive.

Just to help clear the confusion, this is a copy of the instructions for Trigo Wheels - the ones produced by Lynn Park. I can not confirm they are still the same for the SoCal produced ones

The old Trigo's were calling for 60 ft. lbs and no mention of thread locker.

Paul

Trigo_Instructions.pdf

[Larry N Johnson]

David,

I have Trigo adapters and rims, chromed.
Also have magnesium rims, Halibrand.

The Trigo pins were/are a pain. Mine are true now as tested at speed, so I dare not remove an adapter.

Terry Stapley here has just installed Vintage Wheels. They are very, very nice units. BTW, his pins seem perfect, no issues at all. Wheels went right on after he tightened them. Terry used anti-sieze liberally on everything.

On the Jag-based fronts, a person named Simon makes a replacement hub w pins to match the 5-pin wheels, eliminating the adapters altogether. In the image below, the Simon hub is on the left, on the right is the stock Jag hub w adapter (no pins shown).


The question came up if the Vintage and Trigo spinners had the same threads, so I tried Terry's Vintage spinners on my Trigo adapters. They fit the same it appears, threaded right on by hand.

Test of spinner threads.
Here is a Trigo spinner on a Trigo adapter:


Here are both spinners, Gold is Trigo, Polished is Vintage:


Here is the Vintage spinner on the Trigo adapter:



So, from what I can tell, the wheels and spinners are interchangeable.

More testing can be done if it would "help the cause".

[LMH]

That's cool!
Does anyone make a hub that fit Trigo's for Mustang II spindles?
Larry

[Blas]

Larry,
I have been told that a Trigo spinner will work on a WAW wheel but a WAW spinner will not work on a Trigo wheel. SOOOOOO....If the WAW wheel and the Vintage wheel have the same angle on the face of the spinner...the first sentence applies for Vintage wheels....It has to do with the angle of the bearing face and the spinners coming loose...

[LMH]

LMH,

Interesting thought...I imagine we could figure something out.

I'm getting excited!
Larry

[Dominik]

Great input, now we are getting somewhere! :-)

I wish the adapters were not countersunk and the nuts flat. But that would mean all adapter manufacturers must read this thread...
The adapters are countersunk, because of the available nuts. One could drill the taper out...

Vintage (which are made in South-Africa by Wheelcraft/WAW) feature flat nuts and adapters.

The Jag conversion reminds me of Contemporary's setup. Those days for 6-pin, which were very heavy and expensive for the front. And even more expensive for the rear, but they worked like a dream!

What is ERA's version? (there should be a link not popping up from Bob)

Dom

[Dominik]

I meant: "...now popping up"

[strictlypersonl]

We only make one-piece 6-pin hubs that fit a GM spindle (front) and the Jag bearings (rear).

[Dominik]

Lovely!

And what is your gap between pin drive (stud) and hole in the wheel?
Wheelcraft has 7/10mm in diameter to allow for metric and imperial PCD wheels to fit.

Is the torque transfered via the studs or the wheel clamped by the wing nut?
Or both?

I know that my mate's Can-Am has quite short pin drives to turn the wheel.
And so have various Lolas. They do, however, feature steel insert in the mags.

Dom

[Paul F]

David,

I'd like to get in on this. I have Compomotive wheels and the units in your picture appear to be the units used on Compomotive as well. I've used up all my spares. But I'll try to get one off the car tonight (without splitting it) and mail it to you. If this group settles on something, I suggest we start a new thread to make sure everyone is aware that there are new pin drives for Vintage, Compomotive, and others now available so we can get some volume going.

[cdnus]

LARRY,
It would be interesting to try the Vintage wheel on the installed Trigo hub & adapter & see if it seats properly with the spinner tightened & vise-versa.
From some previous posts it sounds as though the Trigo pins may be too long for the Vintage holes & would bottom out before the rim seats properly.

Craig

[Rick Parker]

The Trigo instructions state that the threaded stud should only protude 5/8" (.625) from the face of the adapter, the adapter is 3/8" (.375) thick. This means the stud is to be 1.0" from the brake rotor face. If this dimension is dismissed and not taken into account, the internal hex or star tool will be progresively (and perhaps unkowingly) pushed out as the nut is being tightened down on the stud, causing a minimal length of the tool to be engaged at the exact time the most torque is being applied. Then if care is not taken to keep the tool correctly engaged (IE: torque wrench cocked to one side using one hand) the twisting force can be applied and spread open the end of the nut as some have experienced. So a word to the wise...it may be necessary to remove the studs and ultimately have their legnth reduced and then be reinstalled. This is a very important step. With the .750 diameter tapered nuts installed and securing the adapter, the diameter of the holes in the wheel are 49/64ths (.765) leaving a .015 clearance. The holes in the wheel are a little over (unmeasured at this point) 1.000" deep.
Those with a keen eye will notice these adapters use 6 in lieu of 5 threaded studs and Trigo nuts on a 4.25 bolt circle. I had my heart set on putting FIA wheels on a Ford 9" rear end. These wheels require a 6 pin pattern because of the mounting pad on the OEM style FIA wheels. Trigo had yet to bring their own FIA wheel to market that was patterned to use a common 5 pin adapter. I purchased the adapters blank from Trigo and machined my own 6 hole pattern (4.25" diameter) and had the new axles machined for the same pattern.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Dominik]

Thanks everybody!

One more:

It is tempting to use imperial 1/2" (FORD, Jag, GM) threaded nuts on Metric M12 (BMW, Merc).
They seem to fit, but won't last... Pitch is almost identical, stud diameter is not!
The metric nuts won't fit over the imperial studs.

Let's get orders for David that the CNC can run for a few hours after is has been set up.
A new thread may be wise.

Dom

[CNGreen]

Put me down for a full set (20) for my Lynn Park Trigos.

David, I'm still building (almost done) so let me know if you want me to send you an adaptor or sample nut.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by CNGreen

Put me down for a full set (20) for my Lynn Park Trigos.

David, I'm still building (almost done) so let me know if you want me to send you an adaptor or sample nut.

Might be good to get an adapter out here to make sure we have the right taper going on.

I am in the middle of the quote right now. Actually, I already ordered the stainless already. It will be here in a few days.

David

[CNGreen]

David,

Thanks for taking my call. The Pin adapter and lug bolt will ship tomorrow.

[David Kirkham]

Oh boy, there is a 1/2-20 AND an M12 thread???

Better make sure everyone orders these things correctly. The Trigo ones we have are 1/2-20 thread.

David

[LMH]

David, do you need a Trigo adapter?
I'm not using mine if you need one, so it's no hardship for me to send you one.
Larry

[David Kirkham]

Thanks!

CNG and LMH! Looks like CNG is going to send it out so we will get this all finished up quickly.

David