Pin drive bolts splitting Help Please

[priobe]

Can someone explain why the "Tuner" lug nuts wont work.

Secondly why we can not machine the hub adaptors to the same angle as the pins as Rick mention in the begining of this post.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by priobe

Can someone explain why the "Tuner" lug nuts wont work.

Secondly why we can not machine the hub adaptors to the same angle as the pins as Rick mention in the begining of this post.

I would have to measure the tuner lugs to make sure what I am about to say is right.

My inclination is they are not made to be concentric--they don't need to be. The axis of the threads may not line up with the axis of the OD of the pins. Tuner lugs are not driving the wheel on the OD of the pin.

The taper of the tuner pin may not match what the taper in the hub adapters is--90 degree in Trigo and 60 degree in Vintage. From the post you can see I measured Trigo pins in the rather strange 76 degree area--not standard from anything we are used to here.

Tuner pins do not hold the OD to any specific tolerance--it can vary widely leading to stuck pins in the wheel holes.

Hope this helps. I am happy to try again if need be.

David

[CNGreen]

Any update today David?

[David Kirkham]

I have some photos that I took earlier today, but I just can't break free to post them. For some reason, we are selling parts like crazy right now.

I will try to post them soon.

David

[David Kirkham]

WOW! What a day. Lots of parts to ship.

Anyone who is following the thread knows the Trigo pins I measured were at 76 degrees. I assumed (very BAD thing to do) they were a standard 82 degree taper and so we made about 100 of them at 82 degrees. When things started to not look right, I busted out the angle gauge and found I was a dummy...and so was someone else. The tapers on the pins were 76 degrees??? WTH (For you non-Utah people, that means "What the Heck." We later found out the Trigo hub adapters have a 90 degree countersink in them. Someone had a little too much weed when they were making thos pins.

So, we had a bunch of bum parts. Concentricity, is critical in this part (along with most parts) so we specially machined the jaws on the lathe to fit a collet chuck. We then chucked the pins up in the collet chuck to make sure they were absolutely straight, and we corrected the taper to 90 degrees. Bummer to machine the parts when they are already hard, but carbide doesn't really care too much. You just have to go a bit slower.

[cdnus]

David,
Untill now only the cheap crappy parts were available.
Now because of your dedication to quality there is a Grade A+ & safer nut available.
Now how about us Vintage NUTS

Craig

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by cdnus

David,
Untill now only the cheap crappy parts were available.
Now because of your dedication to quality there is a Grade A+ & safer nut available.
Now how about us Vintage NUTS

Craig

We can probably make a batch of them tomorrow, but we will have to figure out exactly what needs to be made first.

David


ps. thanks for the kind words!

[CNGreen]

Thank you SO MUCH David for making our cars safer!

I'm just happy I got to show you and the world the crappy parts I was gonna throw on my car!!



BTW What IS the proper torque rating for this part? I assume no locktite?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by CNGreen

Thank you SO MUCH David for making our cars safer!

I'm just happy I got to show you and the world the crappy parts I was gonna throw on my car!!



BTW What IS the proper torque rating for this part? I assume no locktite?

Proper torque rating for our pins is 80 foot pounds (dry)--the same as a wheel. Locktite is not necessary, but if you do use it, I'd use blue and NOT use RED! Unless you like saying naughty words if you ever have to take them off!

I would also recommend using anti seize on the tapered face (not on the threads). If you want to use anti-seize on the threads, then I'd reduce the torque to 60 foot pounds.

David

[427PMS]

Daivid ,
I am looking for a set of your pins for the Trigos , I sent you a IM

Thanks Chris

[cdnus]

David,
No rush on my account----snowed in till mid April.

Craig

[Dominik]

Great!

I hope the manufacturers of wheels and adapters were reading this...

Dom

[cdnus]

David
After viewing the photos of the finished taper end it looked familiar, so I measured the same ends of the vintage nuts that I am now using.
The end has been machined off flat & remains .040 wide after the inside (thread) has been chamfered @ (looks like 90deg.) to a face width of approx .060. All edges are nicely finished.
So it would appear whoever made these up took the design under serious consideration as have you.
The only shortcoming is the internal hex, which can present a problem on installation & removal if one is not very carefull.

Craig

[Paul F]

I've contacted Trigo, Vintage, and Compomotive about our discussion. Vintage said they would make some comments on this thread. I'm reviewing information with Compomotive. I have not heard back from Trigo.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by cdnus

David
After viewing the photos of the finished taper end it looked familiar, so I measured the same ends of the vintage nuts that I am now using.
The end has been machined off flat & remains .040 wide after the inside (thread) has been chamfered @ (looks like 90deg.) to a face width of approx .060. All edges are nicely finished.
So it would appear whoever made these up took the design under serious consideration as have you.
The only shortcoming is the internal hex, which can present a problem on installation & removal if one is not very carefull.

Craig

Craig,

If you still want some shorter ones for the Vintage wheels, just let me know. We have some more in the mill right now.

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 427PMS

Daivid ,
I am looking for a set of your pins for the Trigos , I sent you a IM

Thanks Chris

Chris,

Did your pins make it out? I was out of the office all last week so I am not really sure what happened with the mice!

David

[427PMS]

Ahhh , Thats is very nice .
Paul, good picture comparison from old to new
David , excellent job on the pins I didnt think I could be excited to get some pins but I am looking forward to receiving them Thanks

Chris

[jmarsey]

Paul,

Thanks for posting pics. Yes, looks familiar (crack). Hope I can still get a set of those beauties.

John

[Paul F]

I forgot to mention that David's pins, besides fixing the taper issue that David discovered, also fixed the original problem; the splitting pins. I was able to torque them down with no fear of splitting them.

Ahhhhh.

[jmarsey]

Hi David,

Don't know if you got my PM but wondering if your pins are still available, or did I miss the boat?

Hope you can still help me out.

Thanks, John