CSX 4000 Series Talk

[Sharroll Celby]

Misleading people as usual. When people ask if any Cobra is "Real", they are askinf if it was one of the 1000 or so originals built in the 1960's, and currently worth over $600,000. Nobody is saying the Continuation replicas arent "Genuine" Cobras, but the question people ask most often uses the word "Real", meaning the originals from the 60's. Deal with it.

[RodKnock]

Oh boy, here we go again. Round and round.

Evan, I think it's generally perceived here on CC, even among the mods, that you can be haughty.

[REAL 1]

Candidly I don't care a rats pututy what the questioner may be really asking in his own mind. Its not my job to figure this out. I guess you are related to Great Kazoo. You can apparently read minds.

Fact is, Continuation series Cobras have been in existence now for more then a decade and the subject of various magazine articles, T.V. and in the press on on the Web. Many more people are aware of the Continuation Cobras today then 10 years ago. How do you know what the questioner means today?

I answer the question as posed accurately and factually as stated above. Thats what the car is. If the questioner wants more info thats for him/her to ask. If the question is "Is that an original" the answer is accurately "no".

I couldn't care less what people may mean when they ask is that "real" nor is it my position or obligation to read their mind or guess or surmise as to what they may be really asking. I answer the question as posed factually and accurately as noted above. Doing so doesn't mean I am "misleading" anyone. I don't see anything misleading by saying "yes it is a real Cobra its a Shelby American Continuation series 427 Cobra." If they don't know or understand what that is its not my job or obligation to tutor them.

So let me get this straight. You acknowledge the CSX Continuation series are genuine Cobras so as you note I guess I wouldn't be misleading people if I said it was a "genuine" Cobra but I'm misleading them by saying its a "real" Cobra? Oey Vey.

Thanks but I'll keep answering the question as I see fit which is accurate and fair.

Takes care.

Rod Knock: Well I guess that the perception on this site is all thats needed to make a judgement then. Standing up for the facts and defending the CSX with facts doesn't make one pompous. It makes one principled. Last I checked there is a difference.

Xlr8or: Ouch! Last I check you were one of the worst historical Continuation series detractors here on CC. You should be talking? Now you agree with Sal? So I guess I was right then all along over the years on the CSX issue and you were....WRONG!. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong and I give you credit for that.

[franklin]

So...
If the article is written about comparing a Superformance to a 4000 series car then why is a picture of a brushed Kirkham at SEMA used?

Oh, and NO! I wouldn't trade my REAL Kirkham for either!

[computerworks]

"...pututy"?

[RodKnock]

Evan, the "real" argument will be debated until the sun burns out. Just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean someone has to believe "the facts." People's opinions will vary, but I believe this thread is about the quality of the CSX4000 series and about you being a pompus ass. Let's debate those issues.

[REAL 1]

Thanks Ron.

Appreciate the assist.

Its good to know I am still the CC spelling Bee champ!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by franklin

So...
If the article is written about comparing a Superformance to a 4000 series car then why is a picture of a brushed Kirkham at SEMA used?

Because Kirkham has supplied about 250 +/- bodies to Shelby.

[Sharroll Celby]

If a person asks you if your Cobra is "Real", ask them what they would consider as "Real".

Try lying/misleading yourself out of THAT one!

[REAL 1]

Now, now Mr. Rodknock you know as well as I that the issues on this thread pertain to the issues in the article at the top of this thread i.e. the "realness" of the CSX and the quality issues of the CSX.

There is a difference as to fact and opinion. Opinions revolve around subjective sentiment, judgement or belief based on less than actual positive knowledge. "Facts" are more objective are revolve around that which exists or has been done or not done as the case may be and many times not subject to opinion except as to perhaps degree.

Fact. The continuation series is a Real Cobra not of the original series. Thats established by many facts that exist.

That I'm pompous. Well, I guess thats your opionion. I disagree. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my opinion that saying I'm pompous without evening knowing me makes one an a$$. Thats my opinion.

Have a nice night.

Takes care.

[REAL 1]

Celby: Are you for REAL?

You want CSX owners to answer a question with a question? You want us to interogate the questioner and flush out what they really mean? Oey Vey again.

Theyr'e the one asking the question. I don't go up to them..they came up to me with a question. If they want to know if its an original they can ask. After all thats what theyr'e asking right? So them them ask it.

Hmmm, what about just saying when asked if it REAL..."Yes, its a Real Cobra. Its a Shelby Continuation series Cobra". Thats misleading??? I don't think so. To me it says it all.

[RodKnock]

I never said you were a pompous ass. I just said let's debate it, but jokingly, and that it is a general perception here. Actually, I think you're probably a nice guy in person.

A "fact" can and will be debated. Just because you have "facts" doesn't mean everyone has to believe them. Some will, some won't. It's debated here every time you bring the subject up. Some will believe it is a real Cobra and others will not, yet it's a "fact."

As an example, Mr. Kopec and Mr. Eber et al. can state a CSX4000 is a real Cobra, but why does that mean everyone in the entire woirld has to "drink the KoolAid" or believe them? There are people that will debate that "fact." You think they're wrong. They think they're right.

As for the article, I interpreted it to be more about the quality issue, not a debate over the "realness."

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Candidly I don't care a rats pututy That's funny.

Xlr8or: Ouch! Last I check you were one of the worst historical Continuation series detractors here on CC. You should be talking? Now you agree with Sal? So I guess I was right then all along over the years on the CSX issue and you were....WRONG!. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong and I give you credit for that.

I just agreed to what he said about you, but it's nice to know you were checking up on me.

[ROUSHAC]

Evan, you are certainly consistent. I have to give you credit for that.

That said, maybe we should all compromise on this issue and let it die a well deserved death once and for all.

[REAL 1]

Well lets see here...based on the "fact" the Continuation Series are "Shelby Cobras" (can't dispute that), therefore "Real" Shelby Cobras (can't dispute that either) and regardless of the fact that SAAC, the pre-eminent authority (can't dispute that) says they are genuine/real Cobras and no different then the original series except for date of manufacturer, or regardless of the fact that no other manufacturer can legally refer to or call there cars "Cobras" or display the Cobra logos (can't dispute that) that "factually" that pretty much establishes the issue, factually. On an emotional level, however, and out of personal bias there are those that refuse to recognize facts and take a position based on their own "opinion" or refusing to or denying the hard facts. Kinda like Amedinijhad denying the Holocaust. There will always be those with their own axe to grind or agenda denying or rejecting the established facts. They lose credibility at best.

Facts either exist or they don't. There can only be a debate as to whether a fact exists. Once established by its actual existence or other proof of its existence there is nothing left to debate. I exist therefore I am. Fact. Opinion is different then fact.

There is no compromise. Why? Is it insulting to some to point out the facts and facts which in and of them selves are innocuous?. Fact is fact. Do we compromise right and wrong? Some things are just black and white, right and wrong. Do facts cease to be facts because some don't like them or for some reason feel offended? No, I don't think so. Perhaps the problem is with them not with those pointing out the facts? No insult is meant by pointing out or standing behind these facts despite the umbrage taken by some.

RodKnock: Thanks. I think I'm a nice guy too.

Xl8or: Sorry there buddy. You just got caught with your pants down. Lets not be disingenuious now and start backpeddling. Thats not what you meant at all. You know it. You clearly agreed with what Sal said and complimented him for saying it without being a pompous crybaby like moi. Can't wiggle out of this one. Maybe Celby, who can read minds and knows what you clearly meant can confirm this.

Takes care.

[RodKnock]

Evan, the parts and bodies of a CSX4000 aren't the same as the CSX2000's or CSX3000's. The Kirkhams of Utah did not make aluminum bodies in the 1960's, nor were most of the parts now available from vendors today available in the 1960's. Also, CSX2000's and CSX3000's weren't made in fiberglass. Those are indisputable facts.

Anyway, people without bias can and will dispute the "facts" and no amount of legal decisions or legal jargon will sway them otherwise. Personally, I'm just tired of this subject area and would rather move on.

[Allan A]

Sure am glad I went with the CSX 7000 group.

[ROUSHAC]

[xlr8or]

One more swing at that horse.....

Evan, I do agree with what Sal said. He doesn't twist it around when people question REAL when we all know the intent of the question is ORIGINAL.....

You know damn well most of those intend it that way when they ask but you choose not to clarify to pump your own ego. I'm not a Shelby detractor, I have just said that I don't place the same value on a S/N and signature as others and I'm not willing to pay the premium to get them.
The only one I can ever recall bashing for owning one is you. Sal has already explained why.

[Jamo]

Not going to wait around and watch this thing 24/7 to end the way it surely will...closed

That being said, there was one excellent piece of writing in this thread...Sal's post. And that includes the article authored by the thread starter.

Now it's closed.