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-   -   Help identifying 427 Side oiler block (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/96861-help-identifying-427-side-oiler-block.html)

Jim Maxwell 05-10-2009 02:26 PM

Help identifying 427 Side oiler block
 
I have acquired an original Holman and Moody 427 side oiler block with these markings: C5AE-G date code 5A8 HM number: H47M.

The block has 4 sleeves, and is standard bore. There are repairs to the block on both sides of one compartment down low near the oil pan, no involvement of the water jacket. Externally, the repairs are not visible at all.

Would these repairs make the block at any risk for failure going forward?

Anyone have an idea what its worth in the stated condition?
This is the earliest 427 side oiler block I know of. Anyone have one with an earlier date?
Anyone know the significance of the "47" in the HM number?

Jim

DAVID GAGNARD 05-10-2009 03:51 PM

Jim;

Don't know a whole lot about the old 427 blocks, but a buddy drag races a 1000 hp big block Ford stroker motor based on the 460 block.... 4 or 5 years ago a rod broke in half (alum. rods) at 7,500 rpms,took out a piece of the block on both sides just above the oil pan about the size of a silver dollar or larger.They picked up all the pieces off the track and gave them to him in a box, he fit the broken pieces back in the block and welded it up and had to sleeve 2 cylinders, still running the same block today!!!!!!!!!!!

If the repairs were done properly, the block should be fine.... Worth???? have no idea..............

David

Toby 05-10-2009 04:18 PM

Jim,
Closest to that in my book in side oiler is C5AE-H from 1965-66

ERA Chas 05-10-2009 04:36 PM

The production date is Jan. 5, 1968. Don't know the HM code.
INSIST ON A PRESSURE TEST AND TRY TO BE THERE TO WITNESS IT.
Regardless of the skill of the repair I would not use this at more than 400HP. Hits down near the pan rail mean the big chunks broke. Coupled with the possibility of porosity, that's a vulnerable area. Breaks to the water jackets or oil galleys are difficult to find. It may be fine for a 'correctness' motor but that's it.
It is surely not a good value or raw material to do a performance build. A better value and 'near correct' is a new Genesis iron block.

Jim Maxwell 05-10-2009 04:45 PM

Thanks for the information. Anyone else have any thoughts/

Jim

1985 CCX 05-10-2009 04:54 PM

Jim,

I emailed you, nice to talk tonight.

I also Pm'd you.

Jeff

Bernica 05-10-2009 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby (Post 947971)
Jim,
Closest to that in my book in side oiler is C5AE-H from 1965-66

I'm with Toby. None of my books have a "G", unless it's a '61-'62 390, otherwise I show nothing with a "G" in a BBF. Might want to verify that number, or maybe a special block not in the books???

Either way, I agree with all the other guys so far on this post.

Best of luck with it.

mickmate 05-10-2009 08:28 PM

Hi Jim, interesting score. I think you'll find the pan rail repair is common on these motors. The one in the car here now has had that repair. It won't be a problem if it's been done properly. It was more a leaking problem than integrity anyway.
The later bores were squared off for strength on the water jacket or outside, the earlier ones like you have were round or concentric on ID to OD. With the improvements in metallurgy and machining tolerances if the sleeves have also been done correctly that will be no worries.
Cheers mate.

flwolfman 05-10-2009 08:40 PM

As to the HM number, Holman Moody put their serial number on all of their blocks. Jim

elmariachi 05-10-2009 09:27 PM

Check it out. Here are some pics from a shortblock I looked at buying here in Houston last fall. Showed to be a C5AE-G, casting date January 8, 1965, same date as yours. It was stamped HM138 in two places, which I would suspect meant Holman-Moody.

Very cool that they'd have the same date and no surprise that HM would have gotten the very first of the new castings. This particular engine had 4 sleeves and had then been bored to .030 over. It had definitely seen better days. Sorry for the poor focus, these were taken with my Blackberry because I didn't have my good camera with me.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/...34829919_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3573/...776e76f9_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3640/...8d23f074_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3376/...6e73cf53_b.jpg

mickmate 05-11-2009 04:10 AM

That reminds me, it is a lot more useful and valuable if it has the matching main bearing caps and spacers. Replacements can be sourced/made it will need line boring after assembly and spacers surface ground to fit.

priobe 05-11-2009 07:16 AM

I have a C5 AE-H block. I believe my block is on its last rebuild unless I sleeve it.

Just out of curiousity.... is this expensive/worth doing if needed?

lineslinger 05-11-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priobe (Post 948143)
I have a C5 AE-H block. I believe my block is on its last rebuild unless I sleeve it.

Just out of curiousity.... is this expensive/worth doing if needed?

Sleeving is not that expensive and IMHO, if done correctly, solidifies your block in terms of stability and longevity.
I had one of my SO blocks sleeved, reason being it had been bored out to the max, and I was concerned about the walls getting too skinny.
Ended up selling it to a guy that spruced it up to just under 600hp. Zero issues.

Nedsel 05-11-2009 12:57 PM

Jim, I note that someone stole the anchor for my Chris Craft over the winter. If you can deliver your chunk of iron to the boathouse, I think it might get used appropriately. Always happy to help...:eek:

elmariachi 05-11-2009 04:19 PM

Cool Holman-Moody article here.

Jim Maxwell 05-11-2009 05:12 PM

MikeMate, Thanks for the info. The block does have the matching caps and the endcap(whatever that piece is called--you can tell I really know my blocks) has the number 47 stamped in it to match the 47 between the H and the M on the side boss.

Fascinating that elmariachi else has photos of another block made the same date, Jan. 8, 1965.

Nedsel, Thank you so much for you gracious offer to dispose of my excess weight for me. I told Tom Cotter just to set it on the hood of your Cobra so you wouldn't forget it. Somehow, I feel sure you won't!

ERA Chas 05-11-2009 05:37 PM

Jim,
I apologize for posting the wrong date. I transposed the the year-my bad.
I will reiterate the need for a pressure test if you're seriously considering this block.
Ned seems to think as I do.

elmariachi 05-11-2009 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Maxwell (Post 948348)
MikeMate, Thanks for the info. The block does have the matching caps and the endcap(whatever that piece is called--you can tell I really know my blocks) has the number 47 stamped in it to match the 47 between the H and the M on the side boss.

And the HM block in those pictures had that HM138 stamped on the rear main cap and also on one of the pan rails as I recall. It also had this nifty little Dove stamped adjacent to the rear main cap. I also have the same stamp in the same place on my '66 block, dated 13 months later. Anyone know what this was about?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/...763fa9db_o.jpg


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