Our future leagacy

kobrabytes · #1 (**permalink**) 08-03-2009, 07:50 PM

Interesting stuff in the news with the "Cash for clunkers program". Go google:

cash for clunkers kill engine

Watch the videos if you want to be horrified.

It highly saddens me to see such a blatant destruction of technology. Having a love and interest in cars and technology I watch while we squander opportunities for the next generation to learn the art of automobile repair. My first car was a clunker by all definitions, a 67 cuda. I learned more about cars from owning that car than anything I was taught in school. Body work, welding, front end work, about engine care, and on and on.

Where would any of us be without those experiences? What is happening to our sense of history? What if Shelby was forced to destroy all of the original Cobras?

Today our children can sit in front of the TV and have a fun filled virtual experience. May we be the last generation who were the doers? Next time you go to a car show look at how much history might not exist some day. I'm sure this is only the beginning.

len

HI Cobra · #2 (**permalink**) 08-03-2009, 08:05 PM

I totally agree - my first was a '57 Ford and I "apprenticed" on that car, doing
just about everything to it including an engine swap with no research on it but
got lucky - put a 352 in where a 312 had resided prior to, with only minor
changes. A lot of that will be lost - although, nowadays with the computers
doing most everything in running the cars, we might be a dying breed as it is.

Cashburn · #3 (**permalink**) 08-03-2009, 09:40 PM

Based on the guidelines of the program you will not be losing anything "classic" and/or "rare" by any means. The cars of era this applies were manufactured in numbers not seen in the classic years by any means.

kobrabytes · #4 (**permalink**) 08-03-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Based on the guidelines of the program you will not be losing anything "classic" and/or "rare" by any means. The cars of era this applies were manufactured in numbers not seen in the classic years by any means.

Um... In the 60's they were going to dump the Daytona Coupes into the ocean before they decided it was cheaper to ship them back to the States. Classic is a term that something becomes after aging...

Back in their day I suspect the Model A's were easily tossed into the trash...

Cashburn · #5 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

Um... In the 60's they were going to dump the Daytona Coupes into the ocean before they decided it was cheaper to ship them back to the States. Classic is a term that something becomes after aging...

Back in their day I suspect the Model A's were easily tossed into the trash...

So now you understand what induces collect ability and value. Make a list of cars produced after 1984 that you deem worth saving, then let me know how many cars on that list you can confirm have fallen under this secondary bailout program.

kobrabytes · #6 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

So now you understand what induces collect ability and value. Make a list of cars produced after 1984 that you deem worth saving, then let me know how many cars on that list you can confirm have fallen under this secondary bailout program.

I don't understand anything...

I'm not sure what makes something collectible today will matter in 50 or 100 years.

In the 70's I witnessed a dump of early microcomputer technology. These early chips were parted out for pennies. On the 30th anniversary the same chips that sold for 25 cents were now selling for 250 dollars! One thousand times the scrap value. Don't sit there and pretend that you understand the value of a future market... Chough cough...

Tom Kirkham · #7 (**permalink**) 08-03-2009, 10:07 PM

FDR did something very similar during the depression:

http://history1900s.about.com/library/photos/blygd9.htm

Cashburn · #8 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 09:41 AM

My point is, the cars and "technology" you are worried about are not in the actual vehicles that qualify here. You can raise concerns about the program or the feathers but this is not the best angle (or even a strong one) to attack it from.

kobrabytes · #9 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

My point is, the cars and "technology" you are worried about are not in the actual vehicles that qualify here. You can raise concerns about the program or the feathers but this is not the best angle (or even a strong one) to attack it from.

NO, you clearly don't understand what I'm saying.... How old are you?

Collectible is relative.

Can you quote where I am attacking the "program"?

I am shocked at the blatant destruction of anything that is still useful. I was raised by parents that lived through the depression of the 20's. My paradigm doesn't include unnecessary waste. These cars can be taken off the road and still be used for their salvaged parts. There are still many of these cars being driven that need replacement parts. So why is our Government wasting the energy originally invested in the manufacture of these cars by destroying parts that can still be used?

I also don't understand the cost effect here?

If I drive 10k per year the difference between 20 and 25 mpg is 100 gallons of gas. In 10 years that is 100 x 10 x 3.00 = $3,000. Not much of an incentive for me to part with $20k of my hard earned money.

The point of my original posting was to ask what we are losing. Working on a "clunker" is how I gained knowledge in many areas, not just automobiles. We are now becoming a society of disposers. It's a dangerous mindset. "Most" people are on this forum because they love the "art" of these cars. I fear that a society that looses its "value" of "value" will become one that ceases too preserve that past.

Cashburn · #10 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 12:44 PM

Would a lowered dependence on foreign oil that comes at a great cost to us be any incentive to you? Again, I'm not arguing the program, simply the concept that we are destroying something of great worth.

Based on your description above, I can see you are not educated on the restrictions and requirements of the vehicle you are submitting for the program.

You cannot turn in a car that gets 20mpg. Especially if you are purchasing one that is rated for 25mpg.

I am 33 years old, I read, watch the news, own my business, house paid for, don't belong to any political party (vote either way), and grew up around cars and specifically the cars they are targeting here. There's nothing there that belongs at Barrett Jackson in 20 years.

Value is based on what is valuable, thinning the herd may allow that to happen.

This program is too small to make a dent anyway...

kobrabytes · #11 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

I am 33 years old, I read, watch the news, own my business, house paid for, don't belong to any political party (vote either way), and grew up around cars and specifically the cars they are targeting here. There's nothing there that belongs at Barrett Jackson in 20 years.

.

Been there, done that decades ago...

You may want to check back in 20 years when you've developed a bit more philosophically....

You are totally missing the point.

Cashburn · #12 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

Been there, done that decades ago...

You may want to check back in 20 years when you've developed a bit more philosophically....

You are totally missing the point.

Will be happy to share with you in 20 years

what our "leagacy" is...

zrayr · #13 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

Been there, done that decades ago...

You may want to check back in 20 years when you've developed a bit more philosophically....

You are totally missing the point.

how arrogant can a person be. A fine example of age not equaling wisdom

Z. Ray

kobrabytes · #14 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 09:04 PM

You guys are right, I'm wrong. I bow to your wisdom, I concede...

You own the thread... Knock yourself out...

vettestr · #15 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 12:44 PM

Bytes,
It is clear that some back door deal was made with this Plan. Very limited parts are allowed to be removed before crushed or shredded. So much for all the GREEN concept of recycle. A deal was made to sell new cars and not impact or influence used car parts or that market. In the end it is not even limited to American Cars and I think most sold will be imports to add insult to injury. Say what you will about foreign cars that are assembled in USA, the parts come from foreign countries and the bulk of the work and money goes right back to foreign soil on a ship with foreign flags.

I think TODAYS Unions killed the market and all the good they did (they did start off doing good things for its membership) just make some fat cats fatter today. No Biz. can survive paying 80 bucks an hour (fully burdened) to its workers. I guess this is getting off the path so will stop here. Why would our Gov. generate sales in one market economy and not in others in a free market economy?? Wait a second, Government Motors ..... I guess it's not a free market in the civilian sector anymore.

cobra bill · #16 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 03:32 PM

I can't think of one of the cars that qualify for the program, would ever be a collector car in the future, or any car I would want to spend money on to restore. and the few that are will never be turned in for that program anyway, and there will not be enough money allocated to this program to take all of them out of circulation, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's just the engines that will be destroyed right? I heard that the cars themselves could be parted out.

vettestr · #17 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 04:51 PM

The AM news said only the battery, rad, AC condenser and doors were allowed to be removed. I was shocked at how little it allowed. Hope other correct me/this if wrong but that was what ABC showed this AM.
Jeff C

Great Asp · #18 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 05:25 PM

From a nuts and bolts approach, the "clunkers" have (had) a value, why not part them out.

In High School I worked at a junk yard parting out cars. It was fun and we got paid for it. I'd like to have all the air bags.

E

Cashburn · #19 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 07:07 PM

The dismantler has 180 days to remove whatever they want with the exception of the engine (that is what the program is effectively targeting). Whatever is left after 180 days must be crushed or shredded. The scrap metal is then put back into the system...

Noticed the OP changed his first post so now it is a question of destroying history, there's no history being lost here. Not really a Cobra topic but oh well.

kobrabytes · #20 (**permalink**) 08-04-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

The dismantler has 180 days to remove whatever they want with the exception of the engine (that is what the program is effectively targeting). Whatever is left after 180 days must be crushed or shredded. The scrap metal is then put back into the system...

Noticed the OP changed his first post so now it is a question of destroying history, there's no history being lost here. Not really a Cobra topic but oh well.

Um... I didn't change anything in my first post.

You clearly don't get it, yet you continue to drivel on and on and on... If you don't agree, just say so, move on. There is no prize for winning here, it's just an opinion, mine.