Scienitific Healthcare Poll

[jhv48]

They are all betting that by November, the country will be back to prosperity and we will all forget about this one bill and not vote them out of office.

I'm voting against anyone that voted FOR this abomination of a bill.

And I do have a long memory.

[Car Nut]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Mulv]

Oh look! Here is a new mascot for you all! You should paint this on your cars as it reflects your outlook....




Call the Republican members of the house and ask them to give up their disgusting government administered , lifetime benefits health plans. Go on, I dare you...

[Danr55]

Mulv, Call the Dems and ask them why they felt it necessary to write in a rule to the health care bill that specifically exlcuded members of Congress and thier families.

For that matter, ask why Congress feels it necessary to exclude themselves from so many bills that they pass. Do you think it's because they believe in the bills as being good for the individuals and good for the country?

Hey, You're Kanuckian. What do you think about socialized medicine in Kanuckia? Why do so many of your countrymen feel it necessary to come to the US for adequate health care?

[Mulv]

PM sent. This is not a car topic and you are not very informed. I will not debate this here, meet me at the Pavillions next week and I will be pleased to comment in public. Without national slurs...

[Danr55]

I apologize Mulv. The term was not intended as a slur. It's just my pet name for folks from Canada. No more a slur than referring to Fountain Hills as Fountaintucky. No insult was intended.

As for the health care issues. I've not spoken to anyone who actually lives in Canada who is enthusiastic about the state of national health care. THey all comment on the waits involved for any serious surgeries and the poor quality of general health care. The only comments I've heard have been from folks who work for the same company I do, but in the Canadian branch. THat is not a small organization and I've yet to hear anyone say anything good about it. They have enmasse warned us southerners about the poor situation we have in store for us should this national health care bill pass.

If you have a rebuttal, I would be interested in hearing it. Unfortunately, I will be away this weekend and will not be at Pavillions.

[carmine]

Rent the movie called SICKO
by Michael Moore

Real eye opener on Americas health care vs other countrys

I'm Canadian and I will admit ours isn't perfect but I would never give up our health care system for yours

[Skully]

How come every time our boys and girls in DC think its good for us , they dont include themselves. We should stand up and say NO to these people. We are like little sheep to be lead to the slaughter , we can only blame ourselves , we elected these BOZOS.

[DWRAT]

Originally Posted by Danr55

I apologize Mulv.

Danr,
Your better at causing trouble on web sites then even I am and I'm pretty good at it.

[mikiec]

Guys,

Fitz asked for just Y or N. Lets leave it at that, otherwise Ron will lock this down. Check the lounge, I suspect the fight is on overthere.

Mike

BTW N.

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by Danr55

I apologize Mulv. The term was not intended as a slur. It's just my pet name for folks from Canada. No more a slur than referring to Fountain Hills as Fountaintucky. No insult was intended.

As for the health care issues. I've not spoken to anyone who actually lives in Canada .

Apology accepted. Is the other half of your company in Ontario? If it is then I don't think that your colleagues understand the true state of things here. I have seen doctors here that made me question whether they had ever attended medical school..

If you look at the bill that has passed, it is pretty milqutoast. It is not public healthcare at all, it basically still uses the same crummy insurance companies as before. It just doesn't call your Vietnam injury a pre-existing condition and force you to have the Viet Kong cover you because it was their fault though...It does , however prevent some bean counter from deciding whether your life is worth the expense and effort. If you did have full boat public care, the cost of medicine would automatically tumble because doctors and hospitals would collect 100% of their billing so they would not have to grind you to cover the pricks that have no coverage but still show up.

There are no premiums in a true public system although they sometimes have co-pays to reduce the abuse of the system. That is not what this is at all. It would come out of your taxes like other government programs do if it were. It will be a lot less expensive than the other "Big Dog" of US government programs is as well. I think everyone knows what it is that eats up about 30% of our taxes with no hope of a return at all is but it is another topic and it sure as heck is not medical care.

Just be pleased that someone has finally decided to do something for the middle and working class people in the country. Everyone will be insurable, as they should be. They are going to have to pay for it , just as we all do. I heard a great comment about this topic yesterday - "Women were granted the right to vote in 1920, but that did not grant them all the rights of equality. That came later with tweaks and changes" This can be adjusted to increase the utility of the plan later.

If you think that voting out the current bums in Washington will cause this to go away, think again. This will be utterly untouchable. It will be political suicide to dick with universality. Don't think so? Ask a Canadian about that or a German or an Australian or a New Zealander or a Norwegian or a Swiss or a Swede or a Finn or any of about another 30 countries that have socialized medicine....

I am not a spoksman for the Democrats or the Republicans, because frankly I cannot tell the difference between the two virtually identical parties. I will say that I received excellent medical care when I lived in Toronto, Vancouver , Montereal and Ottawa. I would say that the care I receive here at the Mayo Clinic , where my practitoner is employed is pretty close to the same level. Certainly that was not true when I lived in California, Pennsylvania, New York or Colorado. It was also not true of several clinics in Scottsdale that I used before the Mayo. I have had medical advice from some that would get your license revoked in Canada and should be here as well but once again , another topic.

One last thing, I have insurance on my cars that looks like this:

$1,000,000/$500,000/$500,000 $500/$100 ded and my premiums are $2,000/yr


I have medical insurance that looks like this:

$100,000 max $2,000 annual deductible and my premium is just over $10,800

My car guys make $2,000 a year on me
My medical guys make about $9,400 a year on me.

Explain to me again why the status quo is so great?



I vote Yes , but not nearly far enough..

[Slither]

No, not a chance!!!

[RedSnake351]

Let me get this straight...... we've passed a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong????

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by computerworks

A reminder that this is the Arizona club forum and the OP has decided to ask his local members their opinion on a topic.

Replies should be limited to those members.

Then why is the thread posted in a way for everbody to see, and respond?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by carmine

Rent the movie called SICKO
by Michael Moore

Real eye opener on Americas health care vs other countrys

I'm Canadian and I will admit ours isn't perfect but I would never give up our health care system for yours

Don't believe everything you see or hear. You really need to experience things first hand, yourself or family/friends, in both (all) systems, to really understand the significant differences.

I would not give up our ( US ) healthcare system, at least at the present time.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Mulv

One last thing, I have insurance on my cars that looks like this:

$1,000,000/$500,000/$500,000 $500/$100 ded and my premiums are $2,000/yr


I have medical insurance that looks like this:

$100,000 max $2,000 annual deductible and my premium is just over $10,800

My car guys make $2,000 a year on me
My medical guys make about $9,400 a year on me.

Explain to me again why the status quo is so great?



I vote Yes , but not nearly far enough..

Because the premiums you pay for health insurance are used to pay for healthcare for really sick people (private or government run), some of which would not get the same level of care in other socialized systems, such as CABG's in people over 65, kidney transplants, dialysis, etc. If you really look at the level of care, amount of care delivered in the US, for the sickest patients, comparing that to other countries, even CAnada, you will see that there is no coparison.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Then why is the thread posted in a way for everbody to see, and respond?

Because when we hide all the Forums, all you see is ads.

...

[Fitz]

Well! I just thought from talking to many of you that this is Cobra owned Forum of guys and gals has across the board people of all races, jobs, income and sophistication. Many pretty smart folk among us! Like my close friends who are judges, attorneys, accountants, Managers, Government guys and owners of their own companies.

I was just curious.

Mikey was right. A simple Y or N; but that is hard to do. Just like our congress has a hard time answering simple questions yes or no.

I don’t think any of us understand the facts in the bill. I mean where do you go to actually read it and if you can find it you have to be an attorney to understand it. It reminds me of the movie Gladiator when the whole show is about “”keeping the mop happy”” i.e. us.

Hell, I am waiting for two things to happen to this Cobra world.
[1] Congress all needs to drive a cobra once.
[2] I hope before I die that one state threatens to leave the Union over the overbearing hand of government.
[3] The Military takes over the country for say 6 months so Congress can go to CONFESSION as it will take that long for them to get though the line.

We need a third party right now as Mul is right. There isn’t a thing different about these two parties. The pure arrogance of these Buffoons is staggering. Term limits are in order.

FYI: I personally know of no real new jobs created and the Commercial Real Estate Market in Phoenix has not hit bottom by a long shot. Buildings and companies are going under left and right. The service Industry is hard hit as well. Bad Bad news.

I am wondering how many Factory Fives Cobra kits or any other for that matter have, been sold in the last year compared to the 5 years prior. People are scared. Be thankful we still have our Cobras and have jobs and our health. Hope you make it to 65 and get the supplement policy. Ha!

[computerworks]

...I was just curious.

So, you are satisfied with the answers now?

Are we done?

[Fitz]

I think so until we start lying about HP