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Steering lock ADR
Hi All,
Just wondering if anyone can help with a solution for complying with the isolation requirements without using the factory steering lock of the donar car? I would like to locate the ignition barrel on the dash so that i can strip down all the gubbens around the column. I know a lot of you have dash mounted ignitions, so how have you complied with the locking requirement? Cheers. |
I will watch for an answer to this one.
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You need a lockout of either "Steer vehicle/Engage forward drive gears/Release a brake"
If you have an auto behind your LS3 it may be possible to wire in through a master solenoid off your immobiliser 3rd function. I am not familiar with the way the autos in them work so cant say for sure. Some sort of solenoid activated locking pin along the lines of a reverse lockout solenoid maybe if you have a tremec, maybe a reverse lock-in setup??? A solenoid operated stop on the brakes? Possibly like a line locker solenoid to make the brakes "ON" and unreleasable unless activated by the immobiliser once again. The brake lock would be pretty easy to do. Even though I am retaining my steering lock I was reading ADR 25/00 - ANTI-THEFT LOCK last night and pondering possible options if you went the other methods. |
Some of the guys have wired the steering lock/ignition on the column and a dash mounted start button together. ie.You turn the ignition key to the start position (steering lock is then disengaged) but the starter solenoid active wire is via the start button, not the ignition switch.
Still leaves you with the column key which is maybe what you don't want. |
In my case I am trying to ditch the colomn key, as I think the CR design is not the prettiest in this area.
I would prefer a round shroud around indicator switch and colomn poking out through a little round hole in flat dash panel. My guess is a small electric solenoid to drive the lockout into place where the turning of the key would normally do it? |
Boxhead, i was thinking about that, but the only problem is being electric it could become a pain. If you had a flat battery and needed to roll it onto a flat bed or clutch start, the steering lock would be on.
At the end of the day it is just a rod that pushes up into the steering boss. I wonder if i can extend that right down to the dash and then try an rig something up that uses a cam that pushes off the barrel. My reason for doing it is because my column has the barrel above the column so it is very close to the top of the dash.. like 5mm. If i lower the column it feels like it is between my knees because of the seats i have. If i can move the ignition barrel, i can strip the column and replace it with a tight fitting alloy pipe to polish up. Outwest, i am using a T56. The only problem with those suggestions is the electric thing as stated above. Cheers. Z |
As you are in NSW, I would talk first with the authorities there. They seem to have a reputation now and may be worth consulting ... As Rebel says many of us have used a start button wired though the ignition and that has been fine. How do new cars with keyless start manage this issue and the ADR?
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good point merv. Must be an electric solonoid.
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One of my cars has a keyless entry and start system and there is no audible click when it disengages a steering wheel lock? Because I guess there is no steering wheel lock and its a transmission or computer lock instead? So if new cars can have it why not other 'new' cars?
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The ADR requires prevention of starting and prevention of moving forward controlled by the one key. The latter can be on steering or gearbox. If its on the gear box it needs to lock in reverse and/or neutral (depending on auto or manual). You are not allowed to be able to remove the key without the lock engaging.
To do this on the gearbox would be very difficult because you need it so the key cannot be removed without putting the car in neutral or reverse. I think the best way is to come up with a mechanical device linked to the key turning. I can easily adapt a pull solonoid that will pull the pin out when power is applied through the ignition however solonoid malfunction will lead to the wheel locking and that is a risk i cant take. Anything electronic would need some sort of fail safe so you dont find yourself with a locked wheel at 100kph turning a corner on the highway :eek: |
"The ADR requires prevention of starting and prevention of moving forward controlled by the one key."
That may be open to interpretation. The compulsory immobiliser really does the prevention of starting when wired through 2 points, either fuel cutoff, ignition cutoff or starter relay cutoff. With the lockable brake scenario, do you want a real working lock or one to satisfy requirements on the day? To activate it you would need to have your foot on the brake when the key is turned off which allows the NC solenoid to stop the fluid. You might only do that once to satisfy somebody then dump it, or leave it on for compliance but not use it further. Failsafe of electrical components on brakes and steering is a valid issue, there fore I wouldn't do it to steering, but would feel OK with it on brakes, especially if there was a manual release option for breakdowns etc as was mentioned. Maybe not the one below but similar concept. While in Canberra in the early days I saw a P76 turn a corner at circa 45 kmh and the rack fell apart and locked up, the driver couldn't stop before he mounted the gutter and bent a few more bits. That wouldn't be nice at road speed. http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/973753...noid_valve.jpg |
Zedn,
Have you spoke to any of the clubman kit manufactures. When I was looking at the Kirkham kits in Perth a couple of years ago I asked the owner of RMC, who was giving me the workshop tour, what steering column he was going to use to make it ADR compliant. There was a mention of a colapsable column that was being made in Australia for Clubmans he was going to look at. If these steering columns are used they must use some device to meet the ADR you are looking at. He builds Westfeilds in the same workshop. Warren |
Warren,
I havnt heard of the clubby column and i do spend a bit of time on the clubby forum. I will ask some people i know. Outwest, I like the brake idea. However to pass the ADR you would need to make it so you cant remove the key without the lock being activated. That is the tricky part. My outlander requires the car to be in park before the key can be removed, maybe it would be the same sort of thing but hooked up to brake light circuit. There is still a problem however that the solonoid could malfunction and clamp the brake line whilst not depressed and lock it off. I suppose if it was only on the rear that wouldnt be too bad a problem. Liam |
I would steer clear of anything that locked the hydraulic brake system.
And as has been said, it will need to be self arming/actuating by simply removing the key (ie standing out side the car and just turning key off and removing key.) |
I saw a Ferrari replica that had no steering lock, instead
he had a plate laser cut that locked the car in neutral I think. It had a funny lock arrangement and plate that located the gearshift. I thought it was a good idea initially but soon realised the old steering lock was the way to go for rego. Just ditch it after the pit inspection.......;) |
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Besides this, i think that the fact everyone does this has made the process hard in NSW as the engineers and RTA are not stupid. |
new cars mainly are auto
they have the auto gear shift lockout where needs to be in park to remove key i think with manuals u need clutch depressed so that starter motor will crank maybe that is enough a brake line solenoid like a line locker is no good years ago we want to use one like an alarm where as when u leave car somewhere u lock up brakes but the line locker kits state that can not be used for longer than around a minute this means solenoid cant be left on to long and also would drain the battery do u need a steering lock or do u need something that stops car starting accidently as u mentioned the time will come in the next decade where u cant even change a fking wheel nut by then i hope to be out of this deminishing trade hehehehehehe |
As others have said some of us have 2 keys and the dash ignition uses the wiring from the collum ignition.
This is because the no1 safety feature from ADR point of view is that putting the steering lock on....must kill the power. If the dash ignition did not pass through the collum wirring then it would be possible to lock the steering whilst driving the vehicle:eek:. It does not look the best but it makes the car mighty hard to steal. |
Sideshow,
Do you know how the steering lock works on a proximity key system? Is it an electronic solonoid? I would just be worried about a fail safe as some of those solonoids have a mind of their own when they go. For the the locks on the automatic trans, they usually require it to be in park to remove the key, but they dont stop you putting it in neutral without the key. If that is used instead of the steering lock it needs to physicaly not let you move it out of park. I havent seen that. Liam |
It appears that BMW, Suzuki and Saab at least use electric/ electronic steering locks. These are apparently hooked through all sorts of circuits and sensors. A bit of a google brings up some tales of woe from users who have had a fault light come on and the lock fails to work as a result.
If the big boys can't get that right it might be a sign to avoid that idea. A couple of those woeful tales below, "2003 saab 9-3's steering locked while driving on the highway**cc when the steering locked, the consumer crossed into the oncoming lane, hit a snow bank, a snow ramp to a flower bed, went airborne and hit a wooden business sign, crossed to more properties, and came to rest on the rear end of a pleasure boat. the computer on the vehicle read steering lock malfunction. the consumer had no control over the vehicle during the accident; when the vehicle stopped the steering worked again, but the message steering locked malfunction remained" "While driving vehicle stalled, and the steering wheel locked. the cause had not been determined." |
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