Build pitfalls

[Turnips]

Just wondering, I've been reading all this talk of engine compliance with emissions testing, side pipes etc, which made me wonder, are they the biggest/only compliance issues people have had recently, or have these been skewed due to my searches?

What other significant issues have people encountered with trying to get their cars registered? I've heard compliant seats can be a challenge to find, but that's about it. does this mean compliant lights etc aren't problematic to find or just that its such a minor issue no one talks about it?

[Zedn]

Provided the beaten path is travelled, there shouldnt be much trouble. It depends on the state, but i think they are all working ok at present.

Emmissions is not an issue, side pipes is testing the wording of the legislation but i dont know if it has been passed.

Its really a case of just following the directions of the engineer.

[Turnips]

Well spoke to an engineer today and regarding side pipes he basically quoted NCOP3, that being, has to be shielded and can't exit toward the left side. So hopefully this means it down/rearward would be fine. Also was surprised when he said emissions to comply with ADR 37/01 (1996 standard). According to infrastructure website, that was superseded by ADR 79 back in 2006. So will have to await his reply regarding that one.

[sambo]

Turnips, so long as your lights are "E-marked" they should be OK. The changes to seat height took effect half way through last year so any new cars need to comply. If your seat manufacturer provides the correct paperwork you should be fine. Eg, evidence of having passed the relevant ADR test - your engineer will clarify.

Depending on which kit you purchase and the state where you engineer it, you may need to provide evidence of twist and bend tests. For high volume kits such as Harrison, CR, G-Force etc, most engineers will accept evidence of testing on an early chassis provided the design has remained the same. Again, seek clarification.

Brake and/or lane change tests, your engineer may accept evidence of testing another kit from the same manufacturer, however it varies state to state. If when they drive your car it's not properly wheel aligned or your brake bias is incorrect you may trigger alarm bells so make sure that's all sorted before they jump in.

If you present for engineering with evidence of a soft top or hardtop being fitted you may need to meet additional ADRs - I believe an effective windscreen demister is required.

In the past, some states required 3 windscreen wipers but I think it has been relaxed so long as a minimum swept area is met. Again, see your engineer.

Brightwork is another one. Shiny chrome steering wheels, reflective mirrors and such - may be seen as distracting to the driver. Rear vision and side mirrors need to be ADR compliant, correct dash padding needs to be fitted.

Please don't take what I've said for gospel. I think it shows that when added together, lots of little requirements can amount to a big headache and many people don't realise this when they start the build. Develop a good trusting relationship with your engineer and it goes a long way.

Sambo

[Turnips]

Hey thanks Sambo. Sounds basically as I thought, and it's not like someone is going to post a big thing about his mirrors being non-compliant, he'll just grumble to himself buy another (complaint) pair and then swap them over. Do that a few times and you've spend thousands more. Fortunately I just got an email back from the local RTA saying that NCOP are basically the standard so I can use them as a good reference guide, and they're so much easier to understand than the ADRs (I'd heard some states like NSW had their own requirements not necessarily related to NCOP).

I think the hardest challenge i'm facing atm is just filtering through all the bad and useless advice, of which there is plenty, and often contradictory, which does make it all the harder.

Hadn't heard about dash padding tho, how does that work for a cobra with a wood grain interior?

[Treeve]

Wood grain doesn't meet the requirements.

Best to give me a call, I'm happy to chat about this kind of stuff, but at the moment I'm stuck with an ipad so don't feel like writing heaps (sorry).

Treeve

[Rob. Smith]

Any exhaust exiting on the left side is no good...in NSW Dash padding is a biggie it has to cover the left hand side and when deflected it must recover fully within a specified time...boogy board foam meets that requirement BUT you have to provide the results before it is accepted. Relish in these little 'curve balls' there are quite a few...almost Just to test your mettle and patience.

[Treeve]

G'day Rob,

Boogie board foam does not meet the new requirements, not by a long shot. I've written a document for my customers regarding the material specifications (including a source of the required goods). I will email it individually, but as it has my name on it, I can't release it freely to the web - if someone wants it, they only have to ask (PM, email or phone call).

Regards,

Treeve

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Turnips

Hadn't heard about dash padding tho, how does that work for a cobra with a wood grain interior?

Good taste should exclude a wood interior, although the correct foam doesn't feel much softer!

[Wazza]

Aren't you guys talking about two different areas of the dash??

My understanding is that the "padding" only relates to the "Brow" of the dash....not the actual dash itself.

So if the dash is dressed in wood/woodgrain or whatever , it doesn't matter....because as long as the BROW of the dash...i.e. the fibreglass edge has a pad with the correct high compression padding, it should be all good.





I've got a wooden dash panel...but only needed to have the padded brow, so I borrowed this "push on" brow pad from Scotty Hampson, which might be permanent....or it might just fall off after rego.

( The colour doesn't match )

Cheers,
Warren

Cheers.

[boxhead]

My understanding was it is only required on the brow too.
But I am not the engineer.

[Rob. Smith]

Originally Posted by Treeve

G'day Rob,

Boogie board foam does not meet the new requirements, not by a long shot. I've written a document for my customers regarding the material specifications (including a source of the required goods). I will email it individually, but as it has my name on it, I can't release it freely to the web - if someone wants it, they only have to ask (PM, email or phone call).

Regards,

Treeve

Thanks for the correction...I'm quoting old info....I've been thinking about getting the new ADRs but have heard conflicting tales about the new rules not being 'finalised' yet....any idea ?

[Treeve]

It's about the rearmost face which can be contacted by a string line, or by a headform sphere mounted on a pole of variable length and pivoted about the H-point with the seats in the 'least favourable' position.

It's not quite as simple as 'the brow needs this, and the face of the dash needs that'. If you cannot reach anything but the brow, you don't need anything on the actual face of the dash... But it's all interpretation.

The interesting point comes down to the suitability of the material for the padding, and there are specific material densities mentioned for the padding, which are way more dense than boogie board foam.

Treeve

[07cob]

I've always been interested in the dash padding. Is the need for this based on a seatbelt failure?

Geof

[sambo]

Geof I can think of one scenario where a seat belt wouldn't help - what if you were transporting a baby Giraffe? Longer necks than humans, hence the requirement for dash padding.

[Treeve]

Seatbelts still have some give in them, and hence once crashed, they will have a deformed length - much longer than when you have put them on when you were wearing them. There is also a certain amount of movement in the design - the long part form the floor to your buckle, which will alow your hips to move (unless really correctly and tightly adjusted), the amount that travels from the inertia reel as you come to a stop, and then also the amount your head and torso 'whips' past the belt into the dash.

Lets also remember that US market air bags are larger than Aus / Euro market cars, for the simple reason that the use of seatbelts in the US is considerably lower than in our areas, hence the air bag sizes and deploy rates are higher to allow for people not wearing seatbelts.

The installation of dash padding is to minimise to as low as reasonably practicable the risk to users of the vehicle - it is reasonable to put in practice dash board padding to protect users of the vehicle, hence why it is done. It is not practicable to install air bags and the like in low volume / kit / home build ICVs, due to the rigorous and expensive testing required, hence why we don't have air bags.

Treeve

[Rossba]

We basically just followed the engineer. We had issues with the seat belt height from the base of the seat and had to make brackets to lift them higher. Looked absolutely stupid and couldn't see them being safe in a accident. Noise test was another issue with 2 cats and 4 mufflers we were 1 db over the limit. The engineer let it pass.Brake rotors had to have the minimum thickness stamped on them.
Try to use as many parts from donor cars that are already ADR compliant and give the list to the engineer when he asks.
Basically it appears that it is up to the engineer's interpretation and it is he who you have to satisfy.
We had a plywood dash in bud had the crash pad on the edge of the fibreglass. We had to have a heater de mister onto the windscreen. Seem's weird for a car with no roof but I think thats what the ADR's require and probably does't cater/allow for cars with no roof.
Had trouble finding ADR seats that would fit. There are plenty of ADR seats that are to wide.
Enjoy the build

Ross

[Modena]

Ross what seats did you end up using?

I believe there is provision for no roof - no demister, in the ADR, weird that you were required to have one. You can always go through without windscreen, then it's no demister and no wipers!

[Zedn]

Originally Posted by Modena

Ross what seats did you end up using?

I believe there is provision for no roof - no demister, in the ADR, weird that you were required to have one. You can always go through without windscreen, then it's no demister and no wipers!

Some engineers still want demister regardless. The ADR says its required if there is provision for a roof. To me that means if you have clips/buttons etc installed then it must be there. I posted on a thread that Athol Mullen had on his face book page. He was saying every car had to have demister, I posted saying that's not correct, only if there is provision for roof and his response was that a roof can be put on any car so it must be there.

I myself have no plans for a roof, just a flat tonau cover for storage and to put on sometimes when parked.

[Rossba]

we got them from the motor shed in Geelong.
They were massively sticking out of the car.