Traction Control
With somewhere around 600hp in a 1000kg car and a 90" wheelbase, I decided that it would be a great investment in both mine and my Cobra's mortality to run traction control.
I just spoke with Chip Torque, the Australian agents of the UK Racelogic Traction Control system - regarded as the best system on the market. I hope it's ok with the mods to post this, but I'd like to set up a group buy. Chip Torque cannot provide a discount on anything less than 5 kits. To that end, myself and one other (Darryl) are buying a kit each so we need at minimum 3 more. The kit includes: Digital controller in black with LCD display(silver available at $10 less). Can dial in how much 'assistance' you require Launch control capability 4 wheel speed sensors (On the Pace Cobras we have them on the front already but the sensors all need to be the same) $1971 inc GST plus freight. If we can get those 5 orders in one hit, then they should be able to get us another 5-8% off the above price but this is dependent on when we order as they need to factor in exchange rate fluctuations. But there will be some kind of saving. Delivery to one point Melbourne then I'd ship them out to their respective owners for the cost of the freight/postage and insurance. They'll only order them once they've received full payment. ETA on delivery is 5 days to 4 weeks. If you are interested, can you kindly please PM me by Monday Feb 2nd. Cheers, Sime |
G'day Simon. Just a thought - will the blown LSA enjoy having fuel/spark cut all the time when on boost?
I'd be considering an LS3 or something a little less wild if I thought the LSA was too overpowered for a Cobra. That's just my personal opinion of course. :D |
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Fair call.....I'm not suggesting that I'm going to drive the car flat out all the time where I'll need the TC constantly - and I will have sticky Avon CR6ZZ tyres. Besides, I'm locked into going with the LSA anyways! I don't believe it will be an issue with the TC cutting boost/spark however. After all, the GTS has traction control and there are guys who have those things making over 800hp, and I have a turbo 350Z that has the Racelogic system fitted and it works great. I'd just like to have the system as insurance. Just need two more for the GB now! Cheers, Sime |
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Hope you guys can get your systems to talk to each other. |
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Are you talking about the GTS? If so, then the electronic throttle control is different to the Racelogic system as you suggest. Pulled this excerpt from the Racelogic manual: Quote:
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What's to stop the GTS system from being used? If it's already a feature of your ECU, that would seem like an easier option.
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Assuming the LSA GTS is the same as other Commodores, traction control is handled by the BCM not the engine ECU, and in LS engine swaps almost no-one installs the BCM due to the extra hassle/wiring/etc for something that is really not required. BCM handles dash, traction, ABS etc.
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After having melted a couple of pistons in the past I'd be careful cutting fuel in a boosted engine that doesn't have forged pistons.
There is a reason that the factory use the throttle for their traction control. |
unless I'm mistaken Race Logic supports an install of cutting fuel, or spark, or both. Just sayin. I'd also be very careful in an FI engine.
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Simon, maybe you'd be better off with a permanent valet mode, say with a lazy 300kW? :D
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very very good idea to run T/C....mine is factory FPV from 2006 from the donor car and whilst I know its come a long way since then you don't realize how good it is until you turn it off. Blown cars generate sooo much torque (mine is 770nm @4800rpm@8psi) that when I turn it off (a simple button on the dash disables ABS and T/C) it can burst into wheelspin at will...I have logged 6000kms now and cant remember the last time I tempted fate and turned it off....its just a much better car with it on....in my humble opinion of course!
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All fair points gents. Thanks.
Race logic do have this to say on their site: Quote:
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Sorry lads, I stand corrected.
The ECM retards the ignition and drops injectors. Traction Control System When drive wheel slip is noted while the brake is not applied, the electronic brake control module will enter traction control mode. First, the electronic brake control module requests the engine control module to reduce the amount of torque to the drive wheels via the serial data. The engine control module reduces torque to the drive wheels by retarding spark timing and turning off fuel injectors. The engine control module reports the amount of torque delivered to the drive wheels via the serial data circuit. So it would seem that you would need an ECM. a BCM, and an EBCM. Sounds too complex. Would be easier to add the system described by Sime above. |
Interesting. I'd never seen it mentioned that a whole injection pulse is cut. That makes sense! I guess you could set soft cuts and hard cuts based on the number of cylinders you'd drop per cycle.
I have an M800 Motec that has the traction control function, but I think there are so many variables and configuration options that it was daunting to even consider consider the best approach. Seems like a lot of guys now are fitting a DBW throttle body and managing traction through throttle position and ignition timing. Gary, thanks for the extra detail about the factory GM stuff. |
Copied from another forum with all credit to the research and documentation re using a GM LS series engine / ECU and BCM / EBCM... is all possible and doesn't seem that complex, as long as you are running a compatible ABS controller as well... :)
(contributed by Laurence Chapman) ABS and Traction Control 2001+ I have installed the Electronic Brake Control Module on my GTM. My donor was 2001 but this guide should be good for 2001 to 2004. Prior to 2001 the plug differs as well as some of the wiring inputs. The 2001+ EBCM provides 5 functions. Antilock Brake System (under braking if a wheel locks it reduce pressure to that caliper until wheel turns) Traction Control (if one rear wheel rotates more than the other when the brakes are not being applied, reduces engine torque and possibly applies braking power to that wheel). Dynamic Rear Proportioning (regulate rear brake pressure to balance braking effort between front and back). Vehicle Stability Enhancement System (monitors steering wheel position and yaw and tries to correct for oversteer or understeer). Rear Stability Control (monitors lateral acceleration and uses brake pressure to improve stability) As others have suggested, VSES and RSC are programmed based on the Corvette and would probably be undesirable on the GTM give the differences in weigh and weight distribution. In addition it would be hard to retain the steering wheel position sensors. So I wanted to disable these functions, but retain the others. Fortunately if the EBCM does not have its yaw, accelerometer or steering wheel position sensors connected, it throws a Diagnostic Trouble Code in the EBCM, and disables the functions that rely on these sensors, while leaving other functions in place. So what follows are the electrical connections that I made for the ABS, TC and DRP functions. You will have to figure out where you want to locate the EBCM module, and run the front and rear brake cylinder lines into it, with 4 individual lines out for each wheel. You will also need the ABS sensors on each wheel, and the connection harness which links the wheel sensors to the EBCM. The Corvette has a switch to turn off Traction Control but it worked through the Body Control Module, which I did not retain, so the only way I can turn off Traction Control is to disable the whole EBCM by interrupting its 12V ignition supply. When looking into the ABS connector on the harness I have 7 heavy connectors, which are A thru G, reading right to left. There are also 29 pin connectors which are #1 at the top right, thru #15 at the end of the top row, and #16 thru #29 from right to left on the second row. “Not used” means that on the corvette it was not used. “Unused” means that it was used on the corvette, but is not needed now. A RED Battery 12V, always on and at least 40 amp. I used the original ABS connector on the fusebox. B BROWN Ignition 12V, and at least 10 amp. This can be put through a switch to disable the EBCM if desired. C GREY Variable Effort Steering – Unused D WHITE Variable Effor Steering – Unused E Not Used F BLACK/WHITE Ground G BLACK Ground 1 Not used 2 TAN/BLACK Delivered Torque connects to C150 - E (see below) 3 LIGHT GREEN Steering position – Unused 4 Not used 5 LIGHT GREEN/BLACK Lateral Accelerometer – Unused 6 LIGHT BLUE Stop lamp supply voltage connects to stop lamp switch and gets 12V when stop lamp operates. It also carries 4-5 volts and low power when the switch is not depressed as a bulb check 7 Not used 8 RED Left rear wheel sensor 9 BROWN Right rear wheel sensor 10 DARK GREEN Right front wheel sensor 11 LIGHT BLUE Left front wheel sensor 12 ORANGE/BLACK Requested torque signal connects to C150 - D 13 ORANGE/BLACK low reference – ties in to brake pressure sensor and connected to ground 14-16 Not used 17 BLACK Brake pressure sensor signal from brake pressure sensor on EBCM 18 LIGHT BLUE Steering position – Unused 19 DARK BLUE Yaw rate sensor – Unused 20 Not used 21 LIGHT BLUE Class 2 serial data connect to C150 – M (same wire that FFR has you connect to the OBDII connector) 22 BLACK Left rear wheel sensor 23 WHITE Right rear wheel sensor 24 TAN Right front wheel sensor 25 YELLOW Left front wheel sensor 26 Not used 27 GREY steering position 5V reference – connect to brake pressure sensor on EBCM 28 LIGHT BLUE steering position – Unused 29 Not used. There is a good chance that you do not need to connect 13, 17 and 27 since I think they pertain to VSE and RSC but in trying to get mine working, I connected them anyway. The EBCM will have Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC’s) because of the sensors that are not connected. You will not be able to see these codes unless your OBDII scanner can access modules beyond the PCM. See my post on cruise control for the scanner setup I used. The codes I got are: C1241 Magnasteer error C1282 Yaw sensor error C1284 Lateral acceleration error C1285 Lateral acceleration error C1287 Steering position error C1288 Steering position error These codes do not disable ABS or Traction Control. If you have other codes, you need to check them out. |
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