I need an overdrive...

[Jon Miller]

There I was, doing a 250 mile round trip wine club pickup when it dawned on me......I need an overdrive!

Actually there were two lessons learned:

1. One should apply sun screen well above the level of the shorts to compensate for the riding up that occurs durring the act of shifting.

2. There is a "sweet spot" at about 2200 RPM where one can actually carry on a conversation with the chick in the passenger seat.

I have a 2x4 428 with a Performer RPM cam, side pipes that you can drop a tennis ball through, and a Top Loader with a 1:1 top gear. The rear end is 3.31. Freeway cruise speed has the tach at 3200 which translates to a thunerous roar reverberating off the center divider and maybe 11 miles per gallon.

I figure that dropping the 70 mph rpm to what I get at 45 whould make the car much less tiring to drive, and save money at the gas pump. I may even drop some weight changing from cast iron to aluminum.

What trans are you guys running and how do you like it? Anybody in the market for a big spline toploader with Hurst shifter?

Thanks,
Jon

[DocDirk]

Jon, I'm running a built up C6 behind my 533 BB Ford. The final ratio is also 1:1 but I have a 2.75 rear end giving me a nice 2200 cruising speed at a legal 55 mph. It's a bit noisier at 75mph and I've given some thought to using an AOD (ankle surgeries prevent comfortable shifting) to allow a 3.55 rear end and up the "launch" factor, yet keep a decent 2000-2200 rpm cruising at higher speeds. It's been hard for me to justify the extra cash for that project right now, so I'm driving more 55 than 75 unless I have a very long ways to go.

Never perfect, never not fun!

Dirk

[RICK LAKE]

Jon Miller Jon do you want to stay with a speeder car or go auto?? Does your area have all flat ground or are you up in the hills?? Do you want the other half driving the car?? How much money are you looking to spend. Here are the questions you need to answer.
You are running a toploader, what bellhousing is on it? This is because of the safety and a new TKO-600, T-56, or Richmond super street 5 speed will be the choices. 1st gear ratio with 3.31 gears with be in the 2.60-2.80 range. 5th gear will be in the .80's-,70's for OD. .064 to too low for this setup, read threads here about doing this and that the car's are running 70 mph+ in order to not lug the motor and damage the drivetrain. You have a mild motor with a good low end power band. It relys on the torque to move the car along the road NOT HP. HP is at 5000 rpm and 2,200 rpms. Back to question,
New clutch, bellhousing (maybe) drive shaft, possible trans mission mount getting moved. Shifter location may be moved with a TKO trans. What style of shifter is in the car?? You will be doing this with an Automatic trans also.
Brent Bylkins could give you a complete price on this setup, maybe even the drive shaft too to fit the car.
If you are looking for better MPG remove the 2x4's and go with a 600-780 carb in size with a rpm manifold. Yes the 2x4 setup looks nice under the hood but killed mpg when driving. Everytime you touch the gas you have double pumps in the carbs putting fuel into it, That's alot of gas. This is a main part of the reason CS ran single carbs on the cobras and GT-40's at Lemans. He gave up 10-50 HP and also was getting about 4-6 mpg instead of 2-4 racing. The other thing was the KISS method, keep it simple stu--d, and it's true.
I have another thought and may be cheaper, Find another rearend with a 3.07 ratio and install that one. If you go racing or auto cross you can use the higher one for this. Spare parts are nice to have. I have been collection them over the years.
My setup is for the track. I started with a 452 motor and have gone to a 482 stroker motor that is very streetable. Ratio in rearend is 3.31 gears I have 2 trans for racing long and short tracks. Max rpm on the motor is 6,200 rpms. Over 500ft of torque from 2,200 to 5,000 rpms. Hp is only in the low 500 hp. 1 trans is a G-Force 5 spd. 3.25 first gear and 1-1 5th gear. With the bigger motor I don't use first anymore.It's a 5g custom trans. Too much power and quick shifting within a second every time from 1-2. top speed 128mph on chip. 2nd trans is a richmond 6 speed with the same first gear 3.27 and an .87 OD. Top speed about 138mph. This is all fast enough for me. Problem is the tran ratings are 450/450 HP and torque. I am way over this number. Street tires and smooth driving have saved this trans from breakage. I will wind this down pro's and con's
TKO600 They have made great improvements to it, It's a good cheap trans and good bang for the buck. The abuse factor of this trans I question it holding up. If you normal drive and not a big burnup the tires guy, this is a good choice.
T-56. Same as above with extra gear. Alot more work to fit into the cobra. Clutch my become a hydro setup. Double overdrive, is nice but IMO you don't have the power in 6th gears to have the car cruise down the road at speed. You have to remember that you are driving a BRICK through the air and it uses alot of power from the motor the faster you go.
Richmond super street 5 spd with OD, Has the ratings of the TKO 600, 600 hp and Torque. Shifter location within and inch of what you have. same shifter handle my be used if it bolts to a Hurst shifter. This trans is heavy duty and cost is about 1,200 to 1,500 dollars more than TKO. I am getting one for a spare in my car. One less gear to deal with. My Dad always said you get what you pay for. IMO and engineering design this is a better trans for the money. I have had to rebuild t-56 trans from F-body cars, GTO and Vette's. They need about 800-1,000.00 dollars to blueprint them and remove the plastic, weak sliders, better main shafts, and syncro's. There are a couple of companies that do this for you.
I think the easy way would be for you to get another center for the rearend if it's a Jag, from CWI or Michigan drive line. It's a bolt in. Same for a Ford IRS setup. Look for a 3.00 ratio. in the junk yard and have it gone through. The lower ratio will cause a small added wear to the clutch but over time and gas saving with going to a single carb, it's a freebe. If you want to talk more, send a p-m to me. Brent hates when I write a book on here. Just trying to give you the best info I can. The other thing is, been there and done that. Look at some of the older threads about this. It's been covered a couple of times. Rick L. Ps I have 30+ years of turning wrenchs and racing. I make a living working on gm cars.

[blykins]

A .82 overdrive short input shaft TKO 600 would be the best choice for you.

You only have a few choices when it comes to 5-speed boxes: A T-5, TKO, or Richmond. The T-5 in its stock form wouldn't last long and the Richmond is just too expensive for what you get.

Going from a big input Toploader, any of these small input boxes will require a clutch disc change, if not a pressure plate change as well.

If you'd like some further information, just let me know...but the bread and butter is:

Things you have to change:

1. Transmission
2. Clutch and clutch fork
3. Shifter handle
4. Possibly a relocation/modification of the transmission mount.

[PANAVIA]

I second the motion on a tko500 , 600 or a t56. A tko will get you exactly where you want to be with minimal fuss, and a more reliable box to boot.

I keep/have a tko 600 in stock at all times for just such an occasion

Let me know if this is something you want to take on , or if you need help.

We even keep QuickTime belhousings in stock for this as well.

Steve

[bobcowan]

I have an older TKO with 0.68 OD 5th and 3.55 rear gears. The engine makes a lot of torque, so it will cruise all day at 1800-2000 rpm's (65-70mph). Perfect for the back roads of Colorado. On the freeway, it easily cruises at 2,400 rpm's (80mph).

Off the line performance is excellent, and it's very easy to drive slowly in parking lots.


I'v been beating the snot out of this trans for 5 years now. Lots of track and street time. Still shifts the same as when it was new. Maybe a little better than new.

[Jon Miller]

I do want to stick with a manual, I don't want to change the rear gears. The first 4 gears seem to be in the right place, I just need another gear or two at the top end. The freeway cruise speed around here is right around 70 MPH. I do go up hills now and then, but it seems that everytime I go up, I also go down . A friend has a new TKO500 with adaptor plate that may bolt right in, and the price is well below retail. I may be a little over the 500 ft/lb rating, but there must be a factor of safety built in.....or not. I don't race the car so I may not need the TKO600 which would also cost me about $800 more.

Thanks for the help!
Jon

[289fia_cobra]

hahaha... Jon, you kill me. I go on vacation and then I see you posting and there's only one reason you do that!!!!! ;-)

I think your inseam is about 32" right? When I get back from LA, drive my FFR so you know what a 5 speed feels like. I don't have the same torque/HP as your 428 but you'll get a general idea of how it sounds at 2000 RPM AND talking to your spouse.

[Tom Howland]

Steve, I need to get my drive shaft shortened. Do you do that?

[blykins]

n/m.......

[Excaliber]

...big spline toploader with Hurst shifter?

Hey I've got one of those sitting in my garage right now!

I to am running a 3.31 rear gear and wanted over drive. Brent (B2Motorsports) set me up nice with a TKO600 and a .82 OD. As my clutch was already hurting I went with a new unit there as well. I had to have my driveshaft lengthened, some will need it shortened. I had one bad u-joint replaced and of course a new input shaft on the drive as well. I think that ran about $125, had it done locally. You will need the short input shaft for the trans, which I replaced myself having bought that piece from Brent. BUT, you might consider having someone else do that swap before they ship the trans if your not real comfortable with working on the trans yourself.

I used my EXISITING top loader trans mount, which bolted directly to the new TKO. I then had to fabricate a new steel mount on the car's frame to bolt the trans mount too. In my case, it was a lot easier than I thought it would be, but I can see where it could get ugly. Depends on how your exisiting car trans mount works.

Put a spacer between the trans and the bell housing or not? I'm not real keen on using spacers so I went without one. However, not using one moves the new trans shifter slightly forward of the exisiting top loader shifter hole. So, I had to modify the hole for the new shifter. If I did it again, hmmmm, thats a tough one, I'm not sure if I'd use a spacer or not. You STILL might have to do some mods on the existing shifter hole anyway, for side clearance if nothing else.

Finally, I HATE missing that third gear shift when the pressure is on, in the excitement of a "race" it can happen real easy. Especially with a 5 speed. So I went with the Steeda Tri Ax shifter to replace the stock one. GOOD CALL! The Steeda is rock solid on the third gear shift even at high rpm, I never miss. Don't "force it" or try to "shift it", just slam it forward with an open palm and it WILL find the gate.

The .82 dropped the rpm by about 600 or so. That may not sound like a lot, but it's night and day difference in the cockpit sound and exhaust tone. Perfect for me! .6 OD? No way, that will be to low an rpm for sure with a 3.31.

I was already getting 13 to 14 mpg with DUAL carbs, the top loader and the 3.31. BUT, I was also running toward the lean side on my carb jets and power valve. To lean for the track, drag strip and when the motor was cold, but OK for cruising. I had a pretty good "bog" out of the hole unless the motor was up to full temp with the lean jetting and it was hell getting it to warm up and idle right when cold. I changed jetting and PV's when I changed the trans and haven't been able to check mpg since. I'm running way toward the rich side now, plugs load up at idle, a bit of black smoke if I idle to long. BUT, no problem with a cold motor and more important NO BOG off the line at the drag strip. Actually mpg seems to be about the same, must be the OD doing it's thing? I need two sets of carbs, one for the street (lean) and another set for the track (rich). I may do that!

[PANAVIA]

Tom, -- yes we do, we can shorten and re-balance driveshafts . - and we can have short input shafts installed into your TKO if needed.

[Tom Howland]

Thanks Steve, I'll bring it up to you.

[PANAVIA]

Cool -- you can see me or Joe- let us know when you are coming up !

[Tom Howland]

Steve,
Brought it up around 12:00 today. Joe was a great help. Worked me through some issues I hadn't thought of.

[PANAVIA]

Thats our Joe --= I saw the driveshaft today, looks like good core material. --should come out fine.