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-   -   Brakes and Suspension Systems (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/classic-roadsters-ii/145030-brakes-suspension-systems.html)

Artur 07-25-2021 11:51 AM

Brakes and Suspension Systems
 
Hello Everyone !

I am quite close to converting my fun ride to a daily drive. After 3 years of work (!) I even managed to get a custom hardtop a la Le Mans style…I hope to post some nice pics once my rebuild is done. I will def have a built-in AC to push some cool air in my build now that I have a beautiful hardtop that fits my Classic Roadster.

Just few questions where I need advice:

- for a smooth daily drive (and because I hate the too stiff drive), I like to change the entire suspension system for a smoother ride. I would like to know the list of things you think I have to change in the current set up and secondly, which brands / which suppliers I better use for a complete set that I can rely on for good

- brake system — full replacement to disc —- again and HOCHTIEF brands, suppliers and which parts would I need to replace

Many thanks in advance !

Artur 07-27-2021 05:16 AM

the more threads i read on brakes and suspension, the more lost i get ! What's even more scary is every time somebody starts by saying they are not an expert, i don't understand anything else they are saying under their replies...so...at the cost of requesting double work, is there a chance somebody could send me PRODUCT LINKS (preferably SUMMIT), in order to update my brake and suspension to latest technology...or isn't there even such a thing ? do we have options as owners to make technologically advanced set ups or are we bound to stick to dated products ? currently my brake efficiency is showing 50% so i am not able to pass the road test....similarly my back is hurting every time i cross a bump and i need a much more comfortable drive :confused:

p.s. sorry but i am able to hold a technical conversation or ask or answer specific questions....hope that explains why i am requesting links going straight to Products that i have to purchase...hope life is not way more complicated than that !

t walgamuth 07-27-2021 05:27 AM

You'll need to provide a lot more information about your cobra before anybody can begin to help. ...Brand, engine, rear end etc. You'll need to provide information about what springs you are running and shocks. Age and miles on the car will also be helpful.

sunman 07-27-2021 07:06 AM

Glad to hear from you Artur!
You got a great car and all you are looking for is here
The front suspension recommended by Ed Double Venom and Don Scott is a complete Heidts unit with Wilwood brakes
You add a 2 1/2” extension to top of shock
You weld a small triangle to frame and go strut less
On the 8.8 rear I use easily modified Speedway shock mounts with ProShock coil overs
The rear I have developed is what CR II used but with better mounts and upgraded shocks with 5/8” spherical bearings and is bolt in
Springs are 170 lbs and might go down to 150 lbs to address the harsh ride the CRs have
The stock shock bolt holes are retained and reinforced with more steel
The triangulated 4 link is a roll bind b*t*h that Ford sorta fixed with soft bushings and massive understeer
Using Heim jointed adjustable upper control arms reduces the roll bind
Brakes from North Race Cars. Call Richard at 816-436-1610 check out the website
I will have pictures, part numbers, links and more details coming soon but...
I’m on vacation road trippin rite now!
Party On
Wyatt

Artur 07-27-2021 09:30 AM

Wow !

Sunman and Valgamuth — thanks to you, I don’t feel anymore the lonely cowboy I was till your posts…sunman, this gives me a great head start, hopefully I will be using time more efficiently till you are back from your holidays. And also, I will start posting more pictures as and when my mechanic starts sharing with me what we have on the car.

I really project and endeavor to be in that place by December end where I can share the finished pictures of my beautiful car with a proper lemans top fitted…I have some crazy ideas in mind regarding moving the top in and out when I like. To be continued !

sunman 07-27-2021 09:57 AM

Hey Artur I want to take my El Chico party bus to burn out events. Are there “El Chico” restaurants where you are at?
I heard they were but maybe you know first hand
I have a fabulous show planed I could use a sponsor...

Artur 07-28-2021 04:25 AM

I didn’t get you. I live in Dubai

sunman 07-28-2021 06:01 AM

I know that’s why I asked. I heard the El Chico restaurants were in Dubai and other countries worldwide
It sounds like you haven’t seen them there
My friends joke that if El Chico hears that I put the bus back on the road they would make me stop

Artur 07-28-2021 11:19 PM

Hi - please PM me (I’m still learning how it works here, you can use artur.uluc@gmail.com) and we can look into what you need from here

Roylerumble 07-29-2021 08:04 AM

2 Attachment(s)
This is the front end I'm 99% sure I'm going with.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-MUSTAN...2470264?_ul=CR
Its quality Heidts stuff. A fella I know installed it in his CRII. I've attached a pic and ebay link. If you buy directly from JPL Streetrods instead of ebay, you save some money too. There's several upgrades like the QA1's, sway bar, and slotted brakes. I'm still looking into it but it sounds like there's 3 options for mounting the shocks
1) cut the shock mount down and re weld
2) install shock extenders available from speedway
3) order longer QA1's if you go that route
All the info on this subject is available in older threads, search coil over conversion.

Fellas, please interject here, but as I understand it, the CRII was based on early or OEM Mustang II suspension and it didn't tilt the upper control arm (UCA) back a few degrees to prevent anti dive, and, it uses an older method (the two slots in the top of the shock tower) to securing the UCA to the tower. All the newer aftermarket Mustang II kits have the angle built into them for anti dive. You can install this kit as is, but my plan was to incorporate the "alignment" savers that an inactive member had designed. I am chatting with a few fabricators, so when I get numbers on the cost to make multiple sets, I will start a thread to offer them to other members.

I'm going to do a similar design that was already mentioned above for my rear, sounds like a pretty easy conversion, and I'm also chatting with fabricators to make the mounts based on info and plans other members here have provided me with.

Roylerumble 07-29-2021 08:11 AM

I've emailed some pics (couldn't get those files to upload) of the alignment savers, an example of the speedway/CRII rear coil over conversion and a set, one upper and one lower for another way to complete the rear coil conversion that have different offsets to make sure your shock is properly aligned.

sunman 07-29-2021 08:48 AM

Kevin you nailed it!
I talked to Tom Beroth, who made the savers, yesterday about them
I posted in another thread all he said
The CR front end is close to stock and adding anti dive is recommended
But your arms probably don’t need savers according to Tom and a old Don Scott post
Skinny ones like mine do
The savers are just 2” x 2” x 3/8 angle 7 1/4” long with 4 holes on 5” centers, get Mustang II bolts from summit
Tom said sounds great get to drilling
Align your front end first to determine how to place them
I’ve got 4 pair cut I’m drilling after the bolts get here from Summit and I’m clear about bolt head clearance
Soon as I get them chopped, chromed and toasted I’ll post some pix
Man that’s gonna be sweet, are you leaving the chassis black?
Have you checked out the Team Z Street Beast UCA relocation setup?
Wyatt

Artur 08-01-2021 01:51 AM

hi everyone --- i am taking the risk of being viewed lazy and have no choice but ask again because i am really lost when i read the threads.

Not sure if anyone would have enough time to send me direct links to products i have to purchase to complete my brake and suspension system. On suspension, my aim is a soft drive as much as possible. On brakes, my aim is the most technologically advanced option (i guess barring ABS option!)

Roylerumble -- appreciate the ebay link you sent for the front suspension system. My concern is the follow on messages i am reading suggest to add few things for a proper set up such as anti dive etc. Plus, i guess i am as unexperienced as not clearly understanding if this front set is all about it to cover both brakes and suspension or anything else is needed. Plus, what about the rear system,,,

So all in all, in case anyone has enough time to send me almost a basket of links for a complete set, that would most highly be appreciated. Am aware it may be little too much to ask but trust me it's because i have no other option.

Artur 09-26-2021 05:11 AM

Roylerumble ---
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roylerumble (Post 1495340)
This is the front end I'm 99% sure I'm going with.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-MUSTAN...2470264?_ul=CR
Its quality Heidts stuff. A fella I know installed it in his CRII. I've attached a pic and ebay link. If you buy directly from JPL Streetrods instead of ebay, you save some money too. There's several upgrades like the QA1's, sway bar, and slotted brakes. I'm still looking into it but it sounds like there's 3 options for mounting the shocks
1) cut the shock mount down and re weld
2) install shock extenders available from speedway
3) order longer QA1's if you go that route
All the info on this subject is available in older threads, search coil over conversion.

Fellas, please interject here, but as I understand it, the CRII was based on early or OEM Mustang II suspension and it didn't tilt the upper control arm (UCA) back a few degrees to prevent anti dive, and, it uses an older method (the two slots in the top of the shock tower) to securing the UCA to the tower. All the newer aftermarket Mustang II kits have the angle built into them for anti dive. You can install this kit as is, but my plan was to incorporate the "alignment" savers that an inactive member had designed. I am chatting with a few fabricators, so when I get numbers on the cost to make multiple sets, I will start a thread to offer them to other members.

I'm going to do a similar design that was already mentioned above for my rear, sounds like a pretty easy conversion, and I'm also chatting with fabricators to make the mounts based on info and plans other members here have provided me with.

Roylerumble and all fellows --- sorry to say all the answers i got on this thread are still way too technical for me...Lots of dimensions, cutting, adding, modifying advice...what would really be very helpful is sending me (if possible and sorry for asking for this) a list of links to the shopping list i should complete and buy, ideally from a single place like Summit Racing or another supplier....Even 2-3 suppliers is not hard to manage but obviously the lesser the number, the better. Roylerumble's reply was in that sense, i guess most useful for an amateur like me who depends on his mechanic to do all the work....is there a chance we could go step by step and first complete the shopping list, get all part shipped here where i am and only then start speaking about some advice on cutting and amendments ? perhaps that would be the best way forward for me

just to recap, i want to do a ONE TIME modernization of my way too stiff drive by changing both brake and suspension systems front and rear...for now budget is not a big concern and i hope it will stay like that as i wanna do this once for all

thanks for your understanding

sunman 09-26-2021 08:09 AM

Artur we have Mark, Sycraft, Jeff, Kevin, 74ProII and me doing different versions of of what you want to do too. I suggest you watch what develops and then make your decisions. This will get us the latest up to date parts info
Mark, Kevin and Sy are on the front end setup upgrade, do not use the aluminum bar like mine, and Jeff has a Heavy Duty setup on his running now.
I’m going with a simple easy ride rear suspension and will get some chassis pix and details soon all the parts are on my bench
My pictures show as 1” sideways squares?? I’ll figure it out
Looks like vacation is over. It’s been a great summer
Came home with the top moulds!

Party On

Artur 09-30-2021 06:45 AM

Ok I understand

May I request a collective feedback on a completely different alternative -/- my mechanic is suggesting we buy a Mustang, say year 2000 or so, and use it as a donor car for many things such as brake, suspension and steering systems to start with and in case we are not successful giving rebirth to my 1972 Windsor block, then also use its engine and transmission with injection system (just in case)

Any comments or feedback on this plan ?

Any issues you anticipate in adapting steering suspension and brake systems of a donor car ?

Thanks

Roylerumble 09-30-2021 07:35 AM

can you provide more information on the car and driveline? 8.8 rear or 9"? transmission? I take it its a windsor 302? The windsor is such a good motor, freshen it up, use an aftermarket efi like holley sniper that is way more tunable than a stock system and will look awesome when you pop the hood with a set of cobra valve covers and air cleaner. the front end kit I posted before is supposed to be bolt in, a guy I spoke to used the exact kit and was happy. For a rear, there's great solutions for discs. I'm using an 8.8 out of a 91 mustang and using brakes from an SN95 (94-04) mustang and axles from an astro van and bronco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i8rC9fffnA). for the rear coil overs, sunman is working on it now.

I'm going to be making a post to see if there's any interest in doing a group buy to have a fella build the brackets for the coil over mounts and the front suspension alignment savers. Stay tuned

Sycraft 09-30-2021 09:31 AM

I found a supplier that already makes upper coilover brackets. Mine are getting coated now.. I think I uploaded pics earlier

sunman 09-30-2021 11:45 AM

No to the donor for suspension parts. This is Mustang II front, Fox body rear.
I’m sending photos and dimensions to Mike Allen at Heidts and he is going to get us info on the front Mustang II “coil over upgrade” we need. Heidts is the way to go, with Willwood brakes

Check out ALIGNMENT SAVERS 03-09-2009. Terry made the plans and had RCC suspension like mine. You probably don’t need antidive all though the savers make alignment easy. The rounded ears are not needed
I’ve made Tom Beroth approved savers for the RCC type arm bars out of 7 1/4” long 2”x2”x3/8” angle. The Heidts mount holes would be higher due to thicker arms, you can make these yourself. Bolts are 5” centers easy to make.

I’ve got upgraded Classic Roadsters style, cantilever bolt, coil over mounts for the rear made from Speedway mounts. You don’t need brackets they bolt to stock shock mount holes drilled out to 5/8” and reinforced with extra steel.
Others are worried about shearing the bolt but you couldn’t sheer a 5/8” grade 8 bolt if you ran over it with a train. The Heidts Super Ride IRS has cantilever mounts too, check my gallery.
It’s for ProShock coil overs “ABS/SR5 A B58 P”. They have 13 1/2” ride dimension, soft, mediuim, firm ride adjustable with 10” springs. Using 200 lb springs but if to firm can drop to 170 lb. On this I’m not sure until car is on road

I’ll post and email photos of the rear mounts soon, if you like them I can send you some they only cost $60 to make. Ive got 2 sets made

5 bolt 8.8 axels new from Strange Engineering. If you already have 5 bolt axels they should work

Willwood brakes and 8.8 rear end brackets from North Race Cars check their website. Their bracket is one piece, patented, the best.
I will call Richard at North about master cylinder and update. New parts complete with park brake cables and brake lines too.

For a softer ride I’m using the stock rubber bushing rear upper Fox body arms and boxed Classic Roadsters lower arms with stock rubber bushings.“NAPA SB340”.
I’ve added the Mustang GT Quad Shocks for wheel hop control, the brackets were on my GT rear end already. Made brackets for the chassis. No sway bars

Party On

74proii 09-30-2021 06:36 PM

Buying the Mustang would be a waste. It doesn't sound like your mechanic would be up to the task to use most of the parts. Other than you have plenty of cars left over there and wrecked. There are bracket kits that use can use to convert the spindles you have for bigger /better brakes. After skimming the post, you have a slightly bigger job than you think. There is always plenty of help here, and many good guys to give you help. Something else to think about is heat. I mean this in a big way. Right now you do not know what motor you are going with. The more hopped up you make it the more intrinsic heat you will have. Old motors ran cooler with nice hot spark to create power. Keeping them cool was normally just a better fan on a stock or three core radiator and say a nice 160 degree thermostat. Newer EFI cars run at 182 to 190 degree thermostats. Now adding A/C that adds a lot of load let alone hardware. Basically more heat, in a small engine compartment. a recipe for disaster in your heat, hot enough to fry electrical components like your voltage regulator. I road rescued a professional built major brand Cobra from just such an event. Outside temps were close to 100 degrees, big motor, no A/C driving in traffic and you could fry an egg on the voltage regulator even with the headers wrapped .Get your game plan straight first.


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