Joined for all the right reasons...

bmwmech1 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-15-2009, 08:15 PM

Hey guys, I just joined to accomplish some serious reference for my project, which is really the same as everyone else's, just a bit smaller. I'm in the research and planning stages for a scratchbuilt, 1/8th scale Cobra, which I'll construct from a variety of materials. Brass for the chassis, fiberglass for the body, plastic, resin and rubber for most everything else. I have a 1/8th scale Ferrari F40 which is mostly scratchbuilt and loosely based on the Pocher K55 Ferarri kit on a well known automotive forum that you can check out to see where this Cobra build will go, if you like. Here's a link...

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=935735

but the real topic is this Cobra build I'm gathering material for. My builds tend to be borderline nuts as far as the detail and accuracy goes, so I hope to pick some brains here to get info I wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. I'll say thanks in advance and sorry, too, if I am a pest to anyone, but this build will be a cool addition to my collection and should be interesting for all of you 1:1 builders to watch, as well. Oh, and like my username says, I am a BMW mechanic, I own a foreign car repair business, so I turn wrenches on full size cars, too!

Thanks guys

Garey

289fia_cobra · #2 (**permalink**) 01-03-2010, 10:45 PM

Welcome. Seems you should be visiting the Kirkham site to get an idea of a good example of what the original frame could look like from the company that does a very good job recreating the real thing:

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/mfg/frame_index.html

Read up on the history of the Kirkham brothers and how they started this company.

mk2gt40 · #3 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 05:56 AM

Garey,
Which one? 289 slabside, FIA, 427, 427SC?
I can probaly help you with most things 289
Ross

SoTxButler · #4 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 10:03 AM

Your F-40 is fantastic. Be sure to post regularly so we can see the Cobra take shape.

bmwmech1 · #5 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 04:22 PM

Hey guys, I thought some of you might show some interest in this thread eventually... Lol! I have been gathering reference and have visited alot of the cobra parts and manufacturers websites, so I have been learning alot, lately! I have chosen to do a 427 version, but may also do a 289FIA version after this first one is further along. The body mold is coming along after I made a set of 1/8 scale plans for the body and chassis. The plans took a bit of time, since there is not a definitive "set" available, excluding the set from Cobra Restorers. From what I understand, there are some issues with that set of plans and I had a hard time justifying the cost. So I plowed through as much reference as I could find, looked at a ton of build photos on this site and got to drawing. I'll post some pictures of the plans and the mold for the body later tonight. I had toyed with the idea of doing a wood buck and hammer-forming the body from brass or copper, but decided fiberglass would be easier and quicker. Plus it gets painted anyway, so all the work is covered in the end. I'll use some very fine .6, 1.0 and 1.5 ounce fiberglass cloth to keep the body thin and to scale and it will end up being less than a millimeter thick but pretty strong and it will finish nicely. I ordered the 1/2 inch diameter brass tubing for the main chassis rails and a bunch of 3/16 round and 1/8 square tubing for the rest of the frame and suspension pieces, yesterday. Should have it by the end of the week. Once this gets rolling, I think most everyone will be impressed... it's just like what you guys do in a smaller scale. Everything will have to be made from scratch. Plus, I may just get so into it, I'll have no choice but to build a 1/1 version, too! Always wanted one, timeless design and has to be a blast to own one. Until the next update...

Garey

bmwmech1 · #6 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk2gt40

Garey,
Which one? 289 slabside, FIA, 427, 427SC?
I can probaly help you with most things 289
Ross

Hey Ross, thanks for the info offer, I will definitely take you up on it! I want to do a 1/8 GT40 at some point down the road. You're a fan, judging from your username, correct? Love that car, as well! Keep watching this thread for updates and thanks again!

Garey

bmwmech1 · #7 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTxButler

Your F-40 is fantastic. Be sure to post regularly so we can see the Cobra take shape.

Thanks Russ, the Ferrari has been quite a test of everything modeling... crazy amounts of time and I'd say it's not even half done, yet! I bought the entire Ferrari service and parts manuals, from Ferrari, as reference for that one! It'll get done eventually, but I've really wanted to do this Cobra build for a number of years, so now's the time! Stay tuned, I'll try to get some pics up tonight...

Garey

bmwmech1 · #8 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 289fia_cobra

Welcome. Seems you should be visiting the Kirkham site to get an idea of a good example of what the original frame could look like from the company that does a very good job recreating the real thing:

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/mfg/frame_index.html

Read up on the history of the Kirkham brothers and how they started this company.

Killer link... I have been on the Kirkham site alot, but missed those photos, duh! Those are excellent and I now need to do some revisions to the details on my frame plans!

Garey

ZOERA-SC7XX · #9 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 05:45 PM

Great stuff. You came to the right place for Cobra reference info & pics. I also do scale models when time permits, mainly kit based and resin. For a good head start, check out the old MPC/AMT 1/16 scale 427 Shelby Cobra. While a little smaller than you like, the frame is right on and will give you plenty of build reference. Good luck.

bmwmech1 · #10 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Great stuff. You came to the right place for Cobra reference info & pics. I also do scale models when time permits, mainly kit based and resin. For a good head start, check out the old MPC/AMT 1/16 scale 427 Shelby Cobra. While a little smaller than you like, the frame is right on and will give you plenty of build reference. Good luck.

We think alike... Already have the unbuilt kit and used it heavily while working on my blueprints for reference. Plus it's 1/16th scale, which is 1/2 the size of what I'm building, so converting measurements is simplified. I had that kit years ago and thought it was cool and huge, back then... who knew I'd be scratchbuilding one twice the size years later! Thanks for the suggestion...

Garey

Bernica · #11 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 08:46 PM

Great work on the car! We will all look forward to seeing your progress on the Cobra. I'm sure everyone is more than happy to contribute whatever we can. Oh, and don't forget to put a couple of oil spots under the car. I'm sure many of us can tell you the best place!

bmwmech1 · #12 (**permalink**) 01-04-2010, 09:01 PM

As promised, here are a couple of pics... 2 of the scale drawings on the back of desk blotter sheets, no less... they will be transferred to vellum after all changes and 4 of the foam body mold very early in the shaping stages. As you can see, the drivers side has not been shaped yet and the hood/cowl needs to be raised, relative to the fenders. Also the rear deck area needs to be slightly higher and more rounded in shape. The rear fenders are looking decent, but the whole form will take hours of shaping, filling and sanding before it's done. The body form will be shaped, then sanded and filled as necessary and finally sealed with a special sealer and then it's ready to start laying up the fiberglass.

Enjoy the pics...

Garey

bmwmech1 · #13 (**permalink**) 01-10-2010, 07:27 PM

Started the frame today and got the basic ladder completed. Also continuing to shape the mold for the body, it's almost ready for the first coats of filler... Enjoy!

I thought maybe some frame pictures might spur some interest in this project... we'll see... The frame will be incredibly heavy when its done. It already weighs alot and I just started. Should be good though as it will help to "sit" the model down on the suspension, which will be completely functional...

Garey

Ozgur_Tan · #14 (**permalink**) 01-10-2010, 08:41 PM

Hey Garey

great project
but rear shape of body is wrong, it's more like Factory Five (a.k.a. perky butt)
if you want i can send you 3d model of 427 body-shell to support your project
please find below my 3d work that i've done 12 years ago for 427 chassis

please keep up updated
Regards
Ozgur

To Moderators;
i thought that we should move this thread to "models" section of the forum
with changing subject to more meaningful like "scratch built 1/8 scale 427"
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/models-collectibles/

bmwmech1 · #15 (**permalink**) 01-11-2010, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozgur_Tan

Hey Garey

great project
but rear shape of body is wrong, it's more like Factory Five (a.k.a. perky butt)
if you want i can send you 3d model of 427 body-shell to support your project
please find below my 3d work that i've done 12 years ago for 427 chassis

please keep up updated
Regards
Ozgur

To Moderators;
i thought that we should move this thread to "models" section of the forum
with changing subject to more meaningful like "scratch built 1/8 scale 427"
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=144

Thanks Ozgur,

I have viewed your photos and build thread and would appreciate any support you can give me. I have realized that shaping the body by hand to make it look like it should is harder than I thought. Little mis-shapes can throw the whole thing out of whack. And proportions are critical to getting the shape to look correct. I had noticed the "perky butt" look of the rear and will address it before I claim the body shape is done, but a 3d model would help, most definitely. I have been using the photos on the Kirkham site alot and I have the old mpc 1/16th scale 427 kit, but who knows how accurate that shape is or isn't. I also have accumulated a lot of photo reference, but again, it's 2 dimensional. So again I say, if you have help for me, I will gladly listen.
Also, I agree that this thread should be towed to the models section, as you have suggested or I could start a new thread and leave this one here to direct views to the new thread. I'll let the mods decide...

Garey

Ozgur_Tan · #16 (**permalink**) 01-11-2010, 05:50 AM

Garey

if you send me your e-mail as private message, i'll do the rest

i've had similar 1/2 scale small cobra project for my daughter couple years ago
my plan is to use 1700cc v4 ford with c3 automatic transmission for 1/2 scale cobra
but because of my 1/1 scale 289 i've to put this in deepfreeze

i don't want hijack your thread
last year, we've participated Redbull soapbox race with the "mini-me slabside" (because of 95cm shorter wheelbase)
just for fun

Regards

Ozgur

ZOERA-SC7XX · #17 (**permalink**) 01-11-2010, 04:40 PM

Garey, your work is admirable, but you need help with the body. The MPC 1/16 scale 427 Cobra body is just about dead nuts, except for the omission of the body panels wrapped around the front oil cooler . I don't know how to scale it up to 1/8, however maybe Ozgur can assist you with his computer program. His street Cobra came out pretty nice. The toolmaking dept. at Revell/Monogram Models had a tool to convert scale tool masters. They successfully increased the 1/43 scale '67 Corvette to 1/24 several years ago.

bmwmech1 · #18 (**permalink**) 01-11-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Garey, your work is admirable, but you need help with the body. The MPC 1/16 scale 427 Cobra body is just about dead nuts, except for the omission of the body panels wrapped around the front oil cooler . I don't know how to scale it up to 1/8, however maybe Ozgur can assist you with his computer program. His street Cobra came out pretty nice. The toolmaking dept. at Revell/Monogram Models had a tool to convert scale tool masters. They successfully increased the 1/43 scale '67 Corvette to 1/24 several years ago.

I agree and have been taking a closer look at the shape of the body, especially the rear end and the proportion of overall width to overall length. I am not opposed to scrapping what I have and making another attempt. Thanks for the feedback on the MPC kit shape and proportions... that will help me to know it's pretty dead on...this feedback is why I joined this site... I figured that if anybody knew the rights and wrongs of these cars, it was you guys here. Are you in agreement with Ozgur's observation and my critiques? Any input is appreciated and I'm thick skinned. I'd rather do it right than not. I don't want to get down the road with this and have everybody say "yeah it's cool, but..."

Thanks guys,
Garey

ERA Chas · #19 (**permalink**) 01-11-2010, 06:13 PM

Just a suggestion but possibly some communication with the Kirkham brothers could yield some dimensions or possibly drawings.

Their 427 is THE 427...

ZOERA-SC7XX · #20 (**permalink**) 01-11-2010, 06:15 PM

If I was going to try my hand at a 1/8 one-off Cobra body, I'd try to make templates from a master (maybe the MPC 1/16 Cobra) and mathmatically scale them. I've never undertaken such a project (although I do consider myself a 'contest quality' modeler, with several awards in the last twenty or so years). I might even use sheet brass for the body. I guess I'm just too lazy for that one-off stuff right now...maybe someday when I'm retired. It was much easier to build my ERA replica, as the body was done by those guys in New Britain. I have no doubt you'll get it right, as I've seen your Ferrari. Good luck.