New member with "barn find" question

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Trueoo7

Is that true about being personally liable?

Originally Posted by jwd

No!!!!!

I don't want to derail this thread, so anyone interested in the real answer can just read this read this very short PDF on Executor personal liability.

http://www.williamsmullen.com/files/...%20-%20Cha.pdf

[jwd]

Originally Posted by eschaider

In the event the estate has insufficient funds to pay the taxes she becomes personally liable!

Originally Posted by jwd

No!!!!!

Originally Posted by patrickt

http://www.williamsmullen.com/files/...%20-%20Cha.pdf

Thanks for posting the link. My answer still stands. Now, back to waiting for the serial number.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Trueoo7

Is that true about being personally liable?

Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions. Patrickt's link to the pdf on Executor's personal liability is telling the straight story. There are a small group of people who will tell you the Federal Income Tax is unconstitutional. There are others that actually believe this to the extent they don't pay their tax. Later after they have been convicted and sentenced to Jail time (like Wesley Snipes) they repent stating they had received "bad advice" from a trusted advisor.

As individuals we all have the freedom to make any choice we wish. Choice however does have consequences soooo, as the old Knight's Templar said to Indy in the cave just before he selects the Holy Grail from all the other chalices - choose wisely!

I will suggest to you my earlier statement is 100.00% True! For those who choose not to believe it - that is your right.

For the rest of us, the Estate Executor/Executrix has the primary responsibility of paying all the taxes the estate owes before anything else. After taxes come other financial obligations. If there are insufficient funds to pay the taxes you have an "Estate Sale" to generate the funds. If there are still insufficient funds then the Executor/Executrix becomes personally liable.

Estate Sales are what happens when people who should have done Estate Planning chose not to (choice again). They are public exhibitions of extreme incompetence in the Estate Planning arena!

If your Executor/Executrix has paid all taxes and debts and then wants to liquidate the Estate's Assets for other reasons, auctions at places like Christies are the smarter way to go.

Ed

[jwd]

Originally Posted by eschaider

I will suggest to you my earlier statement is 100.00% True! For those who choose not to believe it - that is your right.
Ed

You need to read the 3rd paragraph of Patrick's link. The only way the executor is liable for any taxes is if they distributed funds/property PRIOR to paying all outstanding taxes. If the estate isn't worth the amount of taxes owed, the full value of the estate goes toward the tax bill. The executor IS NOT liable for the unpaid balance.
Many people have attorney's as executors. Do you really think they would subject themselves to that kind of a liability?

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by jwd

You need to read the 3rd paragraph of Patrick's link. The only way the executor is liable for any taxes is if they distributed funds/property PRIOR to paying all outstanding taxes. If the estate isn't worth the amount of taxes owed, the full value of the estate goes toward the tax bill. The executor IS NOT liable for the unpaid balance.
Many people have attorney's as executors. Do you really think they would subject themselves to that kind of a liability?

Patrickt's link tells you how you can mitigate the liability. It does not tell you you have no liability.

You do have the right to believe you have no liability. If you choose to believe that - that is your privilege and choice. It's one of the great things about living in this country.

Hissy fits not withstanding we still need a CSX number ...

Ed

[olddog]

Doesn't the advise not to even wash the dust off, seem wrong?

A barn find doesn't add a darn thing to the value, in my opinion.

Wouldn't a clean, running car be more valuable than a dusty one that hasn't be started in 15 years and is unknown? Obviously all do care must be taken to make sure the engine is not stuck and rusty inside, before turning it, etc.

[B.M.B.C]

I'm gonna rattle a few feathers now , but watch out out for the dealer sharks wanting the car. And set the reserve at $600k . Because genuine one owner barn find cobras are rarer than the fully over restored show cars. This must be one of the last genuine cars of its kind. You can not buy better originality like that. Get it started and into a running driving condition and leave that dust on it!

[Jeff Frigo]

CSX number please!!!

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Jeff Frigo

CSX number please!!!

+1

This is where it will all begin. Sooner is better than later.

Ed

[D111]

Originally Posted by jeff frigo

csx number please!!!

csx troll :lol:

[twobjshelbys]

Your goal was correctly stated in that the duty of the executor is to maximize the income for the estate. This forum has some good contacts but SAAC will ultimately be your best resource.

You did not say where the car is located. I have some contacts that may be able to help (and would be disinterested parties) that can help with the authenticity. If they are close by they would probably hop at the chance to help.

[mrmustang]

Guys, with the holiday weekend and such, give the OP the benefit of the doubt (and a few days to find out the information)........

Bill S.

[Dennis O'Shea]

I really Don't understand all this legal "MUMBO JUMBO" I just want to know is this Car for real or a Figment of someone imagination

[tommcb99]

Hi all,

Just wanted to close the loop on my post here, as I'm sure everyone thinks it's total B.S.

Well, I talked to my cousin (the executor of the estate that the Cobra now belongs to) and she's been contacted by RM Auctions, which as I understand it is a high-end collector's car auction house. She gave them the details, including serial number and it seems they went nuts. They traced it and found there was a 17 year period of time where there was no recording of it, which is about the amount of time it sat in the garage.

Anyway, it's going to go up at their August auction in Monterey, California. She was told that Carroll Shelby might be there, health permitting.

Based on previous people's post here (by the way, thank you), I told her she needs to insure it for at least $500K. Not sure what she'll do but she said she'd check with the auction house.

In the meantime, she said that RM auctions told her to not release any information about the car, to keep it as a true barn find. I'm not sure this is good advice, but she's doing what they tell her now. They said this will increase the value, which is what a couple of posters here have said, but I have my doubts...but what do I know!

I know, I know...no serial number means just another poster with a fabricated story. All I can tell you is to check out the auction in August. I'm sure this will be the only barn find 289 Cobra in the auction.

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I guess it's now up to the auction house.

Tom

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by tommcb99

Hi all,

Just wanted to close the loop on my post here, as I'm sure everyone thinks it's total B.S.

Well, I talked to my cousin (the executor of the estate that the Cobra now belongs to) and she's been contacted by RM Auctions, which as I understand it is a high-end collector's car auction house. She gave them the details, including serial number and it seems they went nuts. They traced it and found there was a 17 year period of time where there was no recording of it, which is about the amount of time it sat in the garage.

Anyway, it's going to go up at their August auction in Monterey, California. She was told that Carroll Shelby might be there, health permitting.

Based on previous people's post here (by the way, thank you), I told her she needs to insure it for at least $500K. Not sure what she'll do but she said she'd check with the auction house.

In the meantime, she said that RM auctions told her to not release any information about the car, to keep it as a true barn find. I'm not sure this is good advice, but she's doing what they tell her now. They said this will increase the value, which is what a couple of posters here have said, but I have my doubts...but what do I know!

I know, I know...no serial number means just another poster with a fabricated story. All I can tell you is to check out the auction in August. I'm sure this will be the only barn find 289 Cobra in the auction.

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I guess it's now up to the auction house.

Tom

Tom,

Something sounds foul here, I highly suggest you PM Ron or myself with the CSX number as RM would never, and I do mean NEVER give out such advice. Your relative might be in the middle of a potential scam to defraud.


Bill S.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by tommcb99

In the meantime, she said that RM auctions told her to not release any information about the car, to keep it as a true barn find. I'm not sure this is good advice, but she's doing what they tell her now. They said this will increase the value, which is what a couple of posters here have said, but I have my doubts...but what do I know!

Tom, though I'd draw well short of calling your family's car BS, that statement about RM makes absolutely no sense. Just think about it a sec because advertising the CSX # is the FIRST thing that RM would do to get the hype going for their auction. The more widely that information is disseminated the more their auction is hyped. Look at any auctioneer’s advertisement when it comes to Shelbys. The CSX # is THE way to start proving the voracity of the car and that voracity is what will drive the price. Anything else is perceived as a smoke screen hiding something. The car would still sell nicely but would not have the feeding frenzy going for it had its provenance been more widely known.

Just my 3 cents man, Steve

[D111]

Hey Tom

I just go off the phone with Carroll Shelby he's not interested in Your imaginary Inheritance but he would like to know if you would Consider selling your heart. A better story might be that there is pigeon poop on all of the CSX locations and that The fear of removing it may lower its value

[*13*]

Still calling the bluff!!! Show us the facts...

[ROBERT GWALTNEY]

Once they wash all the pigeon poop off of it they will discover its a MG

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Tom, though I'd draw well short of calling your family's car BS, that statement about RM makes absolutely no sense. Just think about it a sec because advertising the CSX # is the FIRST thing that RM would do to get the hype going for their auction. The more widely that information is disseminated the more their auction is hyped. Look at any auctioneer’s advertisement when it comes to Shelbys. The CSX # is THE way to start proving the voracity of the car and that voracity is what will drive the price. Anything else is perceived as a smoke screen hiding something. The car would still sell nicely but would not have the feeding frenzy going for it had its provenance been more widely known.

Just my 3 cents man, Steve

Tom,

Adding to the point Steve is making, RM actually publishes an auction book that has marvelous full color pictures and stories of all the auction cars well in advance of the auction. The distribution is to past, present, and potential future buyers not to mention just plain interested guys like most of us.

This whole secrecy stuff. The idea of the auction house ferreting out your cousin and her contact info. The representation that they contacted her to ask her to put it up for bid at their auction house along with the keep it dirty for more money story is simply not the way thing are done.

There are a few logical possibilities to explain this:

1. Your cousin is being scammed - not good
2. Your cousin is scamming you - not good but not as bad
3. You are scamming us - not as bad as 1 or 2 but the wrong way to start out here.

If it is #1 or #2 above there are many very good and knowledgeable guys on this site for many years that can steer you and your cousin in the right direction. You should give considerable thought to engaging them before it's too late. Should you wait long enough, it becomes a woulda, shoulda, coulda type of deal that you will feel real bad about.

A real good starting point is the CSX # - and a lot sooner rather than later.

Ed