Any experience with JBL Motorsports Roadster Kits?

jeffmort · #1 (**permalink**) 11-05-2002, 10:42 PM

I am looking into building my first Cobra Replica. I recently visited JBL Motors in Fallbrook, CA to check out their facility. They seem to build their cars differently than most. They seem to be friendly and conscious of building a quality car. Does anyone have any experience with, or opinions of, JBL and the cars they produce?
Thanks for your help.
Jeff

Excaliber · #2 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 12:20 AM

I'm considering a JBL myself, but then again, I'm considering a lot of things, lol. What impressed me was the suspension and the engineering in general. Plus, I lean toward the SB, the whole "package" I think would be HARD to beat on the track! The car is perhaps the best engineered Cobra currently available, in my opinion.

BUT, wouldn't a Big Block be cool? NO WAY you can beat the "WOW" factor there! In the end you CANNOT have it all in a Cobra! Choices HAVE to be made! Unless, you gonna buy two or three, lol. It is a VERY tough call on what to buy!

Now if money were no object I'd......wait....money IS an object!

Ernie

decooney · #3 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 02:06 AM

Jeff,

I have a friend that keeps "talking" like he'd be interested in a JBL, for handling purposes. We have not been to the site yet. Please do tell, we are curious... when you visited JBL:

How many chassis were there at the site, around the area?

How many bodies were there at the site, around the area?

Did you see any completed JBLs? (Demos or Turn Keys)

Did you have a chance to ride/drive one while you were there?

Did the facility look like they were in production, or just buidling onsey twosies here and there upon request?

You can Private Message me if needed.

mr bruce · #4 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 04:21 AM

Let me tell you my JBL experience. When my chassis arrived, we started to open the crate, holding the frame to the bottom of the crate were grade 8 socket head capscrews!Talk about overkill. These boys are first class. Don't let the lack of cars piled up all over the place at their shop bother you, they are all about QUALITY not quantity. and yes the chassis can accept a big block. Daves Coupe has a 4.6 Cobra Mod moter in it, so any big block will fit.

Excaliber · #5 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 07:34 AM

4.6 is not exactly what I would call a good example of a "big block". I'll grant you it IS wide how ever. Even at that I think it would be "counter productive" to use a BB in the JBL as it's design is all about "handling".

Ernie

Mr.Fixit · #6 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 09:02 AM

JBL is top notch. They have correctly engineered their car from day one, not just cobbled together a bunch of production car parts and then tried to sort it out. The ONLY drawbacks are: price (get what you paid for) and the body shape is not as original as some folks prefer. I have driven one of the first JBL's, hands down best handling car I have ever driven. Don't be confused between number of units they have sold and the quality of their product. Richard Hudgins has forgotten more about chassis design than most of us will ever learn. If you don't mind the body shape, and you can afford the price of the high-end cobras, you will have one hell of a sports car. Richard, where's the roll center on the JBL, 1/4" off the ground?

Andy Dunn · #7 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 09:41 AM

here are jbl build sites

John Marsey
http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/i...at=500&thumb=1

Jay Torborg
http://www.jaytorborg.com/cobra_main.htm

Andy Dunn
http://www.cobralads.com

jeffmort · #8 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 10:00 AM

Thanks everyone for the response regarding JBL. You have verified that my first impression of JBL was correct - that they build a quality car.

Specifically for Duane:

1) I saw 1 chasis being worked on while I was there.

2) I saw 1 body while I was there.

3) I saw 1 completed JBL - a customers car that was about 5 years old - it still looked great and was very tight and solid feeling. The guy who owned it recently got tangled up with a Mustang while racing at Willow Springs. Considering the severity of the accident, the car held up well - only the body and some topical stuff were damaged - there was no damage to the frame.
FYI - the Mustang ran into the Cobra - the Cobra didn't loose control of his car!

4) I didn't have a chance to ride/drive in one. The car that they use for demo driving was the car mentioned above that was just crashed shortly before I visited. Otherwise, they would have allowed me to drive the car.

5) The facility was definitely in prduction. However, they did seem to be a one-at-a-time builder - this may be good or bad depending on your perspective. I did see the following activity while I was there: they were machining a supply of their custom front suspension parts, there was a frame on the rack that was being completed, I also saw various other parts on the shelves. Dave Hadley of JBL took about 1 1/2 hours to show me around the operation - he was very friendly, answered all of my questions honestly, he even gave me positive recommendations to other, competing Cobra manufacturers that would be worth considering.

The main risks with JBL, as I see it, are: 1) the fact that the operation's future appears to rely on one or two guys. If something "happens" to either of them, or if they have a change of heart about building these cars, there may be a problem down the road if you need their custom parts, or service from them, and they are no longer around. 2) the primary business of JBL (or S-K Specialties) is a machine shop doing macine work that is seperate from building cars. 3) Their cars are a little different than their competitors in that the body shape is slightly different, the car is wider, longer, and lower than others, the front suspension is totally custom, they use 17' wheels as standard, etc. This point can be viewed as a negative in that the car is not "original" - but then, what kit car is original anyway. Personally, I view this as a positive in that the car uses current technology and generally performs better than the competition yet still looks like a Cobra.

With that being said, I am strongly considering going with JBL when I am ready to get started. I am convinced that if you are looking for the highest quality as well as best performance, JBL is a worth considering.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

as I see it

decooney · #9 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 10:55 AM

Jeff,

thanks for the detailed feedback. It is very helpful. Even though there are just two guys there, it sounds as if they are committed and building cars.

I believe some of the hard core Cobra people that are looking to drive Cobras that handle better than current cars like Vipers and Vettes, will consider these cars (if they get a few more cars on the road, and the company proves to be stable). If all goes well, maybe JBL will grow and evolve a bit more, which would be good for those considering JBLs.

Your reponse has intrigued me a enough to drive down with my friend to check them out sometime.

THANKS!

Back in Black · #10 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 11:45 AM

All cobra manufacturers are somewhat precarious as compared to the big 3...any of us in the long haul with a cobra have to accept that we may be required to somehow custom fabricate parts for our cars, if they are no longer available...this goes with the territory and I find it acceptable to own such a cool car as a West Coast or a JBL..neither are original looking, but both have some great merits !

Richard Hudgins · #11 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 08:31 PM

Hi Folks,

This thread was pointed out to me by one of the JBL onwers and they said that I should add my two cents worth.

Well, here it is.

Mr. Fixit.

Thanks for the Kudos. However, I still do not know much about chassis design. I keep learning new things everyday. As to roll centers. At normal ride height of 5 in. front and 5.5 rear. they are "0" front and ".625" rear. Now, I could go on about the migration of the roll centers and roll axis from a dynamic standpoint, but the audience would go to sleep. (Actually, just go to the website, the camber curves and other information is there for all to see.)

Jeff,

I agree that the JBL operation depends on a couple of people. JBL Dave and Mike. (I am only the design guy, Therefore I do not count. But the other eight guys in the shop certainly do.) If JBL Dave decides to ride off into the sunset, the JBL owners will have to have their own parts built by other machine shops and fabricators.

All owners can get the complete detail design drawings at time of delivery. ( In autocad, IGES, DXF, mastercam, or solidworks format.) Also, there is a complete parts listing with suppliers on the JBL site for anyone to see. (Of course it is down right now, as I am upgrading the servers and it is taking a bit.)

Also, JBL/Sk Specialties does indeed make its money from doing CNC machining and fabrication. As it has for 24 years. JBL Dave built all of Micky Thompsons gearboxes, dampers, and chassis bits in the past.

Some of the current customers are Honda racing, Toyota Racing Development, Pacwest racing, Reynard (Who went bankrupt and left JBL/SK with a 6 figure unpaid bill), Lola Cars, Caldwell development, etc. Also many normal industrial customers in the semiconductor, medical, instrumentation. etc.

This is what supports the JBL cobra. It would be impossible to build this car without a supporting business or a sponser.

It takes two weeks to build the raw chassis. It takes over 120 CNC machine hours to build the custom machined parts per car. The fabricated bits such a suspension arms, anti-roll bars, etc. take many more hours.

Now, to address the build process. JBL builds only one chassis ahead of sales. It costs way too much per chassis to build anymore than that. Bodies are built the same way. Why have a bunch of bits sitting about?

But JBL does build all other components in a 10 car lot basis. Therefore, there is always a fair inventory of bespoke spares on the shelf.

Parts that come from outside suppliers are purchased on a as needed basis.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that the JBL is a custom piece as all race cars are. JBL does not build production cars.

If someone wants a production car, they should buy a a main line car. Hell, if you wish a race car from Porsche, you face the same issues. (Just look into the GT3 spares program.)

In closing, the JBL is not for everyone. It is a special piece, and only certain folks will wish to have one.

And the folks at JBL certainly hope it stays that way.

jeffmort · #12 (**permalink**) 11-06-2002, 11:26 PM

Richard-
Thanks for the added information about your firm. As I mentioned at the end of my response to the questions that were asked by Duane, I would definitely consider purchasing a JBL product.
Make sure to pass on my thanks and appreciation to Dave for spending time with me on Tuesday afternoon. After spending time with him, I became comfortable with your company and believe that you build a great car.
Take care.
Jeff

searanch · #13 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 07:30 AM

JBL is at the top of my list and nothing is a close second - now if I can just get 'em to build one with a Jaguar XJR supercharged modah and SMG...

Maybe santa will bring one...

Back in Black · #14 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 08:41 AM

flipper35 · #15 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 12:28 PM

If I were to do it over again. JBL, no question. Even if it means I would have to have a Ford engine in it.

decooney · #16 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 12:50 PM

Hey Flipper35,

being a Mopar man it seems per your id, you seem like a good candidate for a 426 hemi in a Cobra someday. I know its against the rules, but its something that would be neat to see - if you like big blocks that is. My FE is fast enough, but it would be a nice combo to try sometime. I've thought about it more than once.

I heard from a reliable source that Shelby approached Chevy and Chrysler/Dodge back in the day, before ending up with Ford on the Cobra. A Hemi in a Cobra would have been something too. I saw a pic that Gessford Machine was doing one a while back. There is a guy running round with a (get this) yellow Austin Healey Bug Eye sprite with a 426 Hemi and an automatic. In this BugEye, I saw the guy take off from a stoplight at Hot August Nights a year ago.., the engine was hardly idling, and it took off in a way I had never seen a car move before - like it was a cartoon or something.

Duane

flipper35 · #17 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 01:00 PM

Duane,

I gave serious thought to an aluminum Hemi, the iron block being really really heavy. They don't call it the elephant for just the motor mount ears. Had a Keith Black aluminum block lined up and everything. But in '94 it would have cost about 15 times more than I could afford for the rest of the parts.

All that extra power would have probably scared the snot out of me anyway.

At least I get to use the a833 tranny, which also leaves me with one of the shortes drive shafts I have ever seen.

Frank Giustinia · #18 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 03:36 PM

Jeff, I'm going out to JBL 11/15 to check out their cobra. Anything I should ask that you might have missed?

jeffmort · #19 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 06:11 PM

Frank
No more info that I can add at this point. I think you will be impressed during your visit. Have fun.
Jeff