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Club Cobra (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/)
-   Contemporary Classic Forums (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/contemporary-classic-forums/)
-   -   Aluminium Bodied Contempoary (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/contemporary-classic-forums/137890-aluminium-bodied-contempoary.html)

RodKnock 02-04-2017 12:44 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by twobjshelbys (Post 1414832)
No.

Unpainted is a special Kirkham fad. It has bled over into some of the subsequent Shelbys (who now offers the Kirkham finish). All of the originals were painted.
No. No. No. Now you guys are just guessing. Kirkham buyers, new and used desire uniqueness and a polished Kirkham is a work of art.

Do you think spending $20,000-25,000 painting a Kirkham yields a value when resold that is equal to value of the cost of the paint job? No. No. No, not even close.

Dave Brown (4pipes) sold his blue Kirkham last year and the sales price was roughly equal to that of any polished Kirkham. Kirkham buyers can choose to paint their cars or leave the Kirkham factory unpolished. The majority of Kirkhams leave the factory with a polished or brushed finish because that's what buyers want. Yes, I'll repeat, unpainted brush or polished Kirkhams are what buyers want.

And three peaks is correct. Polishing and a paint job are the same cost. And most Kirkhams leave UT polished or brushed.

You guys are WAY off on a tangent. Stick to the value of this Contemporary.

Edit: added pic of Dave's gorgeous Kirkham, which was sold late last year with his last asking price being $125,000, essentially the same value as any nicely done brushed or polished Kirkham.

mikeinatlanta 02-04-2017 12:57 PM
Back on track. I'm having pizza on Bill tonight.:p

RodKnock 02-04-2017 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta (Post 1414840)
Back on track. I'm having pizza on Bill tonight.:p
But make sure it's the paleo cheese-less variety to keep it healthy. :)

krausewich 02-04-2017 03:16 PM
ME
Quote:
If it's a fiberglass body, even with ally panels, I would say roughly 50K high-end. If it is an ally body as well, then maybe push that figure closer towards 60K high. To move the car quick, expect to take high 30's on the low end.
YOU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang
Let's face it, before we can assess the value, we need to ascertain whether the body (any of it) is actually aluminum, or just the underside finished in aluminum. We'll also need more details on the drivetrain, the last time it was running, heck, even the age of the tires before we can make an educated guess on value.

...where the folks like myself, who did this for a living, ...blah blah blah..
YOU
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang
I would say that a quick sale would be $35,000-$38,000 as an original fiberglass car with little build history. $65,000-$75,000 to the right buyer if it indeed has an all aluminum body
Thank you for self-righteously fortifying my estimate. I can return to watching Blues Clues now. BUUUUUUT.... at least you finally provided the fella a rough number which was the only point of this thread. Was it that hard?

I look forward to hearing nothing but crickets from your corner for a month should the body come back as being ally. I will reciprocate the same otherwise and I wasn't even part of any bet!

Man I wish I was a moderator...

mrmustang 02-04-2017 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsessive (Post 1414837)
I have been busy with work and have not had time to reengage in this conversation. I apologize for the neglect and suspense. I'm off to go see the car again and understand the widowed owner has found some documentation and the has made contact with David Hops, the car's builder with Monster Motorsports.

I will have plenty to share with you all to suspend further speculation. The brief review of your collective conjecture and CSI-like evaluation of my photos has been absolutely awesome and I really love you guys for digging in like this! I will tell you that I have personally seen lots of original cobras, built two and currently own CSX4060, a fiberglass car. Everything I have seen up to now has me convinced this is a 100% aluminum bodied car with inner fiberglass trunk, foot boxes and cockpit tub. If I prove to be wrong, I'll let you all know. However, I should have lots to share with you by the end of the weekend.

Stay tuned...
Ah yes, original owner of Monster Motorsports, also the father of the "Laforza".........tell him I say hello, as he and I had spoken several times during his early V8/Miata days and I owned #4 a Sunburst Yellow converted car with the Godzilla emblazed on the seat backs ;)



Bill S

mrmustang 02-04-2017 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krausewich (Post 1414846)
Man I wish I was a moderator...
As the Global mod on a sister site, no, you don't :rolleyes:


As for the rest, how many Cobras (real or replica) have you owned, built, rebuilt, bought, sold, and/or brokered?

rodneym 02-04-2017 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1414838)
No. No. No. Now you guys are just guessing. Kirkham buyers, new and used desire uniqueness and a polished Kirkham is a work of art.

Do you think spending $20,000-25,000 painting a Kirkham yields a value when resold that is equal to value of the cost of the paint job? No. No. No, not even.
Depends on the buyer, IMO. The brushed and polished Kirkham is more of a "step up from a glass car" thing and painted KMPs are people who own or have owned originals or looking for a high level of accuracy (me notwithstanding;) ) From my personal experience, the highest traded KMPs were ALL painted.

RodKnock 02-04-2017 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneym (Post 1414861)
Depends on the buyer, IMO. The brushed and polished Kirkham is more of a "step up from a glass car" thing and painted KMPs are people who own or have owned originals or looking for a high level of accuracy (me notwithstanding;) ) From my personal experience, the highest traded KMPs were ALL painted.
Of course it depends on the buyer, duh, but Kirkhams leaving UT are predominantly unpainted, brushed or polished. The preponderance of all available eBay, ClubCobra and CobraCountry listings show the value between painted and unpainted Kirkhams to be absolutely nothing.

The cost to polish a Kirkham is $15,000. Roughly the cost of a nice paint job. So, any buyer can opt to leave their Kirkham in a file finish and spend that $15,000 on a paint job, but most Kirkham buyers don't. They opt to brush or polish.

It is what is. The market for Kirkhams changed after they started polishing them sometime after Jamo's car.

krausewich 02-04-2017 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang
As for the rest, how many Cobras (real or replica) have you owned, built, rebuilt, bought, sold, and/or brokered?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrWoG8IckyE[/ame]

Mic drop...

mrmustang 02-05-2017 01:41 AM
Wow, a new low for Club Cobra, how sad.

1ntCobra 02-05-2017 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twobjshelbys (Post 1414832)
No.

Unpainted is a special Kirkham fad. It has bled over into some of the subsequent Shelbys (who now offers the Kirkham finish). All of the originals were painted.
I thought the unpainted fad was started by Shelby with the first completion car, CSX 3056.

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...ithCSX3056.jpg

It seems that the fad just bled over to the Kirkhams. :JEKYLHYDE

Obsessive 02-05-2017 09:33 AM
5 Attachment(s)
Gentlemen,

It's time to finally put the mystery to rest. I had a lot of fun yesterday crawling under and all over this thing. Conclusion: This is a seriously nice car that needs a few things to make it darn near perfect.

What it has:
  • The body is 100% aluminum - all of it. The paint is in excellent condition.
  • The frame is a Contemporary chassis that was modified to add round subframe tubes necessary to support the aluminum body.
  • It has a Jag rear end with 2.72 ratio and upgraded substantially as partially seen in photos here.
  • Aldan, fully adjustable coilovers
  • Wilwood front brakes
  • Magnesium Halibrand wheels with aluminum spinners
  • Tires a brand new and there is an extra set of perfectly good Goodyear Eagle racing tires that come with the car.
  • The trunk tub and cockpit tub (including foot boxes) are fiberglass.
  • The trunk was once carpeted but the carpet was removed after being slightly damaged by corrosion from the trunk-mounted battery.
  • The motor is an ALUMINUM 427 side oiler. Internal components and specifics are yet to be determined. Runs great.
  • Sidewinder intake manifold
  • Aluminum medium riser heads
  • Aluminum (finned with COBRA lettering) "T" shaped oil pan
  • Shatter proof bell housing - looks like a Lakewood
  • Richmond 4+1 transmission
  • Smiths gauges
  • Lucas ammeter
  • Leather seats, dash and door map pockets

What it needs:
  • Aluminum inner fender panels up front
  • Aluminum panels around the oil cooler and radiator
  • The correct puke tank
  • The FE expansion tank
  • The correct remote oil filter bracket
  • An aluminum turkey pan around the Holley carburetor
  • Carpet in the trunk
  • A speedo cable and correct speedo drive gear for the transmission
  • Quick jacks fitted and installed front and rear

mrmustang 02-05-2017 09:37 AM
Interesting, very interesting, perhaps I owe Mike that $20.

One question though,

What is it that I see on the right side of this picture? As it does not appear to be a footbox

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/atta...y-img_6160.jpg

Obsessive 02-05-2017 09:38 AM
5 Attachment(s)
More pictures...

mrmustang 02-05-2017 09:43 AM
Now the real fun begins, who in 1997/1998 was panel beating custom aluminum bodies that follow the lines of the Contemporary and not the conventional Kirkham 427 body style?


At the moment, I'm stumped on that one


Bill S

Obsessive 02-05-2017 09:48 AM
5 Attachment(s)
A few more...

Obsessive 02-05-2017 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang (Post 1414916)
Now the real fun begins, who in 1997/1998 was panel beating custom aluminum bodies that follow the lines of the Contemporary and not the conventional Kirkham 427 body style?


At the moment, I'm stumped on that one


Bill S
That's funny. I asked myself the same question as it was in that exact same time when I was purchasing my CSX. I specifically remember that Shelby American stopped offering aluminum bodies (temporarily) due to lack of resources. Kirkham was producing them but they did not have an agreement with SA at that point. I have not spoken with Dave Hops yet but have his cell and will be speaking with him this week. I'll pass along your "Hello".

MB

mikeinatlanta 02-05-2017 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmustang (Post 1414913)
Interesting, very interesting, perhaps I owe Mike that $20.

One question though,

What is it that I see on the right side of this picture? As it does not appear to be a footbox
Not sure why all the discussion, I DID declare the body alloy.:D

mrmustang 02-05-2017 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsessive (Post 1414918)
That's funny. I asked myself the same question as it was in that exact same time when I was purchasing my CSX. I specifically remember that Shelby American stopped offering aluminum bodies (temporarily) due to lack of resources. Kirkham was producing them but they did not have an agreement with SA at that point. I have not spoken with Dave Hops yet but have his cell and will be speaking with him this week. I'll pass along your "Hello".

MB
Thanks again for taking the time out to document more of the car and adding the additional pictures. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong, and have already sent my $20 to Mike.....Can't wait to find out more details of the car and it's build out. Dave was always a stickler for keeping excellent files on everything he touched. Hoping he has the documentation on this one of a kind Contemporary to share.

Given the drivetrain and aluminum body, I'm going to up the value to the $85,000-$95,000 range to the right buyer, once fully sorted and updated.


Bill S.

Three Peaks 02-05-2017 10:30 AM
With this new information or verification of the original information, I'm of the opinion Bill is probably in the ballpark for value, which doesn't surprise me a whole lot. :)

This is a really good looking car, and with a small amount of work could be just about perfect. Most of the additional work is pretty simple to complete- inner fenders, radiator surround pieces, and a few other items are fairly simple projects to complete. Also, most of the other items mentioned above are simple bolt-ons and fairly simple to source.
As long as a person is in there, I would also remove the tank and relocate the filler location so that ridiculous filler hose isn't right in the middle of the trunk area. This may require a new tank being built, but in my opinion would be definitely worthwhile for aesthetics and for value.
The magnesium wheels are just icing on the cake, IMHO.

Bob


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