Bellhousing

[Jerry Clayton]

Thanks Brent for putting the pics up--

I might add that this is an earlier housing but is a good example of how they are bolted between the block mounting holes and around the bottom--also how it was allowed to trim the bottom and leave 7 inches between the bolts.

I also did some measuring and the trimming at the bottom only added anear an inch ground clearance and that was mostly for clearance loading and unloading the car from trailer--the NHRA requires 3 ground clearance from front of car to 12 inches behind the front wheel.
The bottom edge was only aprox 8.5 inches below crank centerline before trimming and 7.5 after cutting

[D-CEL]

Brent,


“I’m not starting this argument again”…but LOL

Once again, when Apples are compared to Oranges, the customer suffers.
I was comparing the weight of everything needed to install the item. You state “The weight is pretty accurate” …. Accept for it doesn’t include the rest of the assembly, block pate, bolts, etc. Really? Lol
So you would place an ad for a Cobra that say “Weighs 1800lbs” and when the guy that buys it weighs it and comes back and says “Hey you lied! It weighs 2500!” You would respond, “Hold on now! I didn’t say that was the weight with the engine installed”

I hate fractional statements designed to mislead. Not a fan of “SPIN”
But we are done with this discussion on that level….right? lol

“Cutting off the bottom”
As Mr. Clayton stated, they can be trimmed and still meet the spec.
And I add: while offering a substantially higher level of protection.

It is an unfair representation and a disservice to your customers to state or infer that a non SFI QT housing offers the same protection as a “trimmed” SFI unit, be that Lakewood or QT.
Those lower bolts aren’t hype they are a critical piece of the puzzle. The more bolts the better.
Until someone proves the safety capability of that non SFI design with testing, the prevailing evidence shows failure.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth…

Alignment:
Ya know, many years ago (high school, yikes!!) I installed my first Lakewood (72 Camaro 350 4spd) I was scared to death of the whole “alignment” issue. Check, recheck, removed, reinstalled, a buddy and I spent hours. We spent more time second guessing the numbers. My history is that they have all went right on, with no alignment problems. Maybe some do, but that is not my experience. I have been hearing about it my whole life, so I assume it exists.
The only issue I ever found (with Lakewood) was on my current 460 version. While doing my last clutch, I set the housing up on a big surface plate and found it to be out of parallel by about .030. I sand paper lapped that block face on the surface plate for flatness, then set it up on a big mill and skim cut the trans face so that it was flat within .001. Probably wouldn’t have caused in an issue, but it made me feel better.
I do like the QT products, just don’t like the way they represent themselves

And your prices appear very fair.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Brent,


“I’m not starting this argument again”…but LOL

Once again, when Apples are compared to Oranges, the customer suffers.
I was comparing the weight of everything needed to install the item. You state “The weight is pretty accurate” …. Accept for it doesn’t include the rest of the assembly, block pate, bolts, etc. Really? Lol
So you would place an ad for a Cobra that say “Weighs 1800lbs” and when the guy that buys it weighs it and comes back and says “Hey you lied! It weighs 2500!” You would respond, “Hold on now! I didn’t say that was the weight with the engine installed”

I hate fractional statements designed to mislead. Not a fan of “SPIN”
But we are done with this discussion on that level….right? lol

“Cutting off the bottom”
As Mr. Clayton stated, they can be trimmed and still meet the spec.
And I add: while offering a substantially higher level of protection.

It is an unfair representation and a disservice to your customers to state or infer that a non SFI QT housing offers the same protection as a “trimmed” SFI unit, be that Lakewood or QT.
Those lower bolts aren’t hype they are a critical piece of the puzzle. The more bolts the better.
Until someone proves the safety capability of that non SFI design with testing, the prevailing evidence shows failure.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth…

Alignment:
Ya know, many years ago (high school, yikes!!) I installed my first Lakewood (72 Camaro 350 4spd) I was scared to death of the whole “alignment” issue. Check, recheck, removed, reinstalled, a buddy and I spent hours. We spent more time second guessing the numbers. My history is that they have all went right on, with no alignment problems. Maybe some do, but that is not my experience. I have been hearing about it my whole life, so I assume it exists.
The only issue I ever found (with Lakewood) was on my current 460 version. While doing my last clutch, I set the housing up on a big surface plate and found it to be out of parallel by about .030. I sand paper lapped that block face on the surface plate for flatness, then set it up on a big mill and skim cut the trans face so that it was flat within .001. Probably wouldn’t have caused in an issue, but it made me feel better.
I do like the QT products, just don’t like the way they represent themselves

And your prices appear very fair.

When you do compare apples to apples, you will find things work a little bit easier. Why call Summit and ask for the shipping weight? Why don't you ask them to pull each bellhousing out and weigh it without the packaging and all the items?

No, I wouldn't include everything in the box as part of the bellhousing. When have you used every adapter ring all on the same bellhousing, or when have you used both ball pivot and L-bracket pivot on the same bellhousing? The Quicktime bellhousing includes a WHOLE lot of accessories.....you don't use all of them when you put it in a car. So why include all of that stuff on the weight of the bellhousing? What if Quicktime used a box that was 1" thick and Lakewood used a box that was 1/8"? LOL See where I'm going?

Here's the difference...

You call people that don't have direct relationships with Quicktime. You call the new owner of the company, which before a few months ago didn't have any experience whatsoever with Quicktime. You also call Summit Racing and ask them for a shipping weight. Neither one of those phone calls is valid. I weigh the bellhousings myself. I ask customers to weigh them. That's the difference. Jason, by all means, buy whichever bellhousing you want. Believe me, it doesn't make any difference to me whatsoever. However, if you're going to post an argument, post some solid facts, not biased information based on whims of phone calls.

If you don't have a beef with Quicktime, you're sure going out of your way to start one. You have hijacked several of my threads so far with this stuff. If you were the one whose Boss 557 took a poop on the dyno, I would understand. If you were his best buddy, I would understand. But you have no relationships with anyone, whatsoever. Once again, prove to me that the same scenario wouldn't have happened with an SFI 6.1 bellhousing. You know what, it may not have. It may have contained it perfectly, we'll never know. I do know that I'm not brand loyal....I've used both Quicktime and Lakewood in my stuff. I know which one is a nicer bellhousing, that's for sure. But if you ask me a question about either one, I'll try to give you actual real world data.

All I'm asking is that if you have a vendetta and you're going to act upon it, post relative, REAL, and actual information on each item, like I have and like Jerry has. Don't just call up random people and ask them for their opinions or information.

[Grubby]

I just changed the trans in my Cobra and verified alignment of my Lakewood. It was more than .025" run out. I ended up having custom dowels machined. A pair of dowells with the same offset would not get the job done. It was a major pain.

My buddy that machined the dowels suggested, more than once, to buy a different bellhousing. We finally got .003" runout.

Lakewoods quality control seems pretty poor to me.

I would certainly pay more for a quality bell. If buying a replacement or building a new Cobra, I will consider QT.

John

[D-CEL]

Brent,

Why are you so upset?. Just discussing the issues, presenting factual data.
As you say I have not, Please tell me what data I have presented that is not factual.
Why do you keep saying that I don’t like QT?
I will say it again:
I like QuickTimes SFI certified design. I would buy one and use it.

For the record: I am not “Biased” and I have no vendetta against you, QuickTime or Ross McCombs. You keep trying to make this personal; rest assured it is not in any way. It’s not about you or Ross. Unfortunately, you have been and are still the loudest proponent of this product. Curiously louder than the designer / former owner of the company. When I asked this question of him in the original 460ford.com post, he said it passed, He seemed very eager to discuss it, until it came down to proving proof of the claim, then he disappeared. It’s frustrating to me that the claim is still made. If somebody could simply provide the SFI test report for RM -8010, this would be resolved. If I am wrong, I will publicly apologize to him and too you, and never darken your posting doorstep again.

As a general consumer, without a “direct relationships” Who exactly am I supposed to call? I have called every number I could find and then some. And your response is “Jason you aren’t performing your due diligence”
LOL that is a joke.
I’m doing the work you as a concerned reseller should be doing. Your customers and potential customers have raised concerns about a product you robustly proclaim as superior. I would think that should warrant a little investigation of your own.
Be that as it may, Since Ross wont call me back, and it appears that you have at the very least a cordial relationship with him. Please have him comment and provide the relevant supporting data on this issue. Lets go to the source and end this.

Weight :
I am trying to get straight answers. That whole truth in advertising thing again.
When I here “22lbs……without the blockplate and hardware” that my friend is an incomplete answer. (“Spin” and mis-direction again)
I read the FORDFE.COM post and it’s completely ambiguous. The post says: “The Quicktime is half the weight. 23lbs vs 46lbs for the latest Lakewoods, I've got one in a box here and took it out to weigh.”
So what does that say? The poster weighed ONE of the housings and not the other:
Did he weight all the parts it needs to be installed or just the housing?
Interestingly, the weight of the Lakewood is 1lb less than the shipping data provided by Summit. However the QT SFI is 15lbs different. That would seem to be lot of unused hardware or a very thick box. Not saying it’s a lie, I just don’t understand the large disparity between the two. That QT would use and ship 15lbs of unnecessary plates, packaging material, brackets and hardware doesn’t make much sense to me.




Here the deal:
One of us is a salesman, plain and simple, looking for the sale. Standing on a soap box preaching the gospel as it was told to him. Remembering always, that questioning the word is bad for business. Herding the flock down the path (I could say “to meet the butcher” but I wont)
When confronted with a opposing view, he wiggles and smirks. Then tries spin and misdirection, hoping desperately that it opposing opinion is lost. When that doesn’t silence the critic he quietly threatens (“be careful….”)

An one of us is looking for truth in representation as it may save a life. Nothing to be gained from the conflict, save the knowledge that a good change has been affected.

Personally I have gone to great lengths to separate you and your business from this issue, trying to make it about QuickTime only. You are choosing to stay in the fray, taking it upon yourself to be the company’s guardian.
Why is that?

Again, this is not personal against you or Ross, just looking for the truth

JASON

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Again, this is not personal against you or Ross, just looking for the truth. JASON

Jason, I don't know you at all, but listening and watching from the peanut gallery, it sure seems like you're grinding away at something.

You quote Summit, but Jegs is different. I'm not sure I would rely on either. Also, I can't imagine that the variance in lbs between the additional pieces to complete the installation of either bellhousing can be material, but alas, I'm not mechanically inclined like you and Brent.

BTW, the Kirkham's seem to not find fault with the Quicktime and they're the engineering types themselves:

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/fa...l.html#install

And the discussion from your side is buttressed by one failure, which statistically speaking, is not even close to a valid sample size.