Bleeding the brakes - Can it be done with the wheels on?

[66gtk]

My ERA has the GM disc brakes up front the MC is nice and full of super clean looking brake fluid. Looks brand new, still and the pedal is firm. I can't be certain how old the fluid is and if it's got moisture in it. Car seems to stop just fine with street use, but could it be better???

I was wondering if I could simply bleed the brakes with a car on a 4 post lift without removing the wheels? Anybody successfully accomplished this? I think the rears (Jag IRS) can simply be accessed from the panel inside the car, right? I was told my car has NEVER had the wheels off since new, so wondering why my fluid looks so fresh/clean if you need to remove the wheels to bleed the brakes???

I'm attaching a photo of the front calipers as seen from under the car on a 4 post lift. Are the bleeders located on the top where the arrow is pointing? Are those the only bleeders (1 for each caliper)?


Thanks!

[kevins2]

No need to remove the wheels if you can get under the front. Lots of tips and tricks on this forum and different methods. And, yes you access the bleeders on the jag through the panel.

[DanEC]

I haven't actually bled my front brakes w/o removing the wheels, but up on a lift it should be possible. The rear, in-board brakes can be bled from underneath too - but to be practical you will need to install speed bleeders first. I will give ERA Chas credit for insisting I install them due to some difficulty I was having getting my new brakes bled. They do make bleeding brakes a lot easier. I would at least install them on the rear brakes as then it's possible to bleed them from underneath without taking the interior apart. I bought my speed bleeder valves off the rack at a Pep Boys. The Bleeders for the Girling and the Camaro brakes are different sizes.

[ERA Chas]

Is the car still for sale? Is that why you're cutting the corner to not remove the wheels?
The wheels are important maintenance by themselves. BUT:
If you're selling it and have a hard pedal and clear fluid, it's unnecessary in the first place to do the job. If you're keeping it, it's your ass and you should flush brake fluid every second season with wheels off. No matter how lightly you use the car.
Get the bleeders first as Dan says.
Pull the front wheels and inspect the weights and condition of the antiseize; clean and renew the antiseize. Do the threads, hub face and tapered spinner seat. Inspect the ball joints and rack boots.
Bleed the rears with the wheels off. Leave the cockpit in place. You can get small throws on the bleeders with a small open end, through the forward shock coils-that's why you need Speed Bleeders. If you can't, undo the lower mount bolt on the forward shock and pivot it out of the way.
Same thing with maintenance on the rear wheels. Inspect the condition of the rubber fuel line connectors with them off. Grease all the zerks on the uprights and joints. Check the diff fluid level.
Don't cut corners with an ERA-it's your ass remember?

[PeteF]

Can someone explain what's physically different about speed bleeders and how they help the process? The pictures I see on the internet don't clearly show me what's the benefit. Thanks

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Is the car still for sale? Is that why you're cutting the corner to not remove the wheels?
The wheels are important maintenance by themselves. BUT...

I don't have the stock brakes, so I'll pass on that.... But I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to just pull the wheels off and have a little look-see at what's going on. Even if you can bleed the brakes with the wheel on, I know you can't do it without putting the car in the air. And if you're doing that, you might as well just take the wheels off. Whether they're lug nuts or spinners doesn't matter. It will only take a minute and the bleeding process will be easier with the wheel off. And you might see something that's important. And while you've got the car up in the air (safely) sit on a stool under it and study it. Look at every piece, and look hard. Think about what you're seeing. These are really simple cars and you don't need a mechanical engineering degree to understand them. But they can come apart easy. So get under there and do a lengthy inspection. Another option is to take a shi*load of hi-resolution shots while you're under there and then study them at length.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by PeteF

Can someone explain what's physically different about speed bleeders and how they help the process? The pictures I see on the internet don't clearly show me what's the benefit. Thanks

They have a check ball in the bleed passage. As you suction or pump fluid, the ball uncovers the passage port. You loosen the hex and that allows fluid to flow out but when you stop, the ball blocks air from being drawn in.
No pumping or second person needed. When fluid is clear with no bubbles, lock the hex.
To prevent air bubbles at the hose connection, coat the nipple with antiseize and use a zip tie if needed.

[davids2toys]

Good thread. This is a job I want to do sooner rather than later. I have inboard brakes in the back. Can anybody tell me what size speed-bleeders I will need for the back. Might as well put then in the front too, so I will need that size also.
Thanks

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Good thread. This is a job I want to do sooner rather than later. I have inboard brakes in the back. Can anybody tell me what size speed-bleeders I will need for the back. Might as well put then in the front too, so I will need that size also.
Thanks

The Girlings in the rear take 3/8 x 24 speed bleeders. I think that is pretty standard. Afraid to state for the fronts. I have the Chevrolet calipers and one side took another 3/8 x24 but the other side took a 5/16 bleeder although I don't recall the thread rate. So, it's best to pull the front wheels and see what you have there first.

There are speed bleeder with factory applied sealant on the threads and also without. I bought the type with sealant on them. I found them at Pep Boys on one of those racks with all the blister pack of Help-type parts. I think they are Dorman though.

[ERA Chas]

Dan's right on the rears. IIRC my front Wilwoods are 1/4-28-there are 4 of them for the pair of fronts.
Dunno the GM sizes. Pull one of yous and go to the store with it or measure in a die.
Russell's have the red thread sealant-get them.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

The Girlings in the rear take 3/8 x 24 speed bleeders. I think that is pretty standard. Afraid to state for the fronts. I have the Chevrolet calipers and one side took another 3/8 x24 but the other side took a 5/16 bleeder although I don't recall the thread rate. So, it's best to pull the front wheels and see what you have there first.

There are speed bleeder with factory applied sealant on the threads and also without. I bought the type with sealant on them. I found them at Pep Boys on one of those racks with all the blister pack of Help-type parts. I think they are Dorman though.

Great thanks, I will check it out

[66gtk]

Thanks for all the good info here guys.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

Thanks for all the good info here guys.

Wait a minute... did you only write that because Chas. was ragging on you in the other thread?