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-   ERA---Speak with Bob Putnam (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/era-speak-bob-putnam/)
-   -   TKO 600 Won't Go Into Reverse (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/era-speak-bob-putnam/84910-tko-600-wont-go-into-reverse.html)

Rickd 01-31-2008 06:07 PM
TKO 600 Won't Go Into Reverse
 
I have my brand new ERA FIA in the Garage, I have put 100 miles on it, and pulled out of the garage this evening for a little ride. It was "stiff" coming out of reverse so I went to put it back in - NO WAY - it grinds like there is no synchroniser. Turn the motor off, put it in reverse, it will back up, but you can't go to reverse with the motor running. The transmission was feeling really good, crisp and clean, no problems. Now this. I'm considering returning the TKO and going with a G force T-5 and getting on with life. Comments? Thanks, Rickd from Miami.

SSSammy 01-31-2008 07:09 PM
Here's some thoughts :)
 
Rick,
1. Stupid idea first .. does it have oil in it? GM Synchromesh spec stuff?
2. Is the shifter free to move into reverse? Mainly, is movement restricted by the edge of the tunnel cutout? Or does the shifter boot limit movement to the lower right corner?
3. You don't say what kind of throw out bearing you have. If it is adjusted incorrectly, you will not get complete clutch disengagement, thus balky shifting.
4. Pedal throw may not be enough .. unscrew the master cylinder clevis at the bell crank a few turns.

Yes, maybe the tranny is defective. But you need to eliminate all other factors first .. ask me how I know :D

Good luck,
Sam

jwd 01-31-2008 07:13 PM
Sounds like a clutch problem, not a transmission problem.

Power Surge 01-31-2008 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickd (Post 810395)
I have my brand new ERA FIA in the Garage, I have put 100 miles on it, and pulled out of the garage this evening for a little ride. It was "stiff" coming out of reverse so I went to put it back in - NO WAY - it grinds like there is no synchroniser. Turn the motor off, put it in reverse, it will back up, but you can't go to reverse with the motor running. The transmission was feeling really good, crisp and clean, no problems. Now this. I'm considering returning the TKO and going with a G force T-5 and getting on with life. Comments? Thanks, Rickd from Miami.
Common TKO600 problem unfortunately. Do a search on it.

Humpty Dumpty 01-31-2008 07:32 PM
Got to agree with jwd, the clutch is not disengaging completely.

jwd 01-31-2008 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Surge (Post 810434)
Common TKO600 problem unfortunately. Do a search on it.
Never heard of this before. They do sometimes get stuck in 2 gears at once during shipping or if you pull it into neutral without using the clutch when there is torque against the gears.
This man's problem is with the clutch, not the transmission.

patrickt 01-31-2008 08:08 PM
I remember this thread with a similar problem on the T56 http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-...o-reverse.html

You might note Jimi G.'s quote:

Quote:
If you can get it into gear with the engine off it is a clutch related problem. Something might need to be adjusted a little more but it is not the T56. jimig@standardtransmission.com

rsb427 01-31-2008 08:13 PM
check clutch for proper throw bleed slave again and check to make sure no leaks under clutch pressure when pressed in have someone hold it down while you look and go from there.

GlynMeek 01-31-2008 09:26 PM
Interesting...the aforementioned problem with the T56 NOT going into reverse was one I originally posted and it turned out to be 100% a clutch 'throw' issue. A suitable adjustment of the clutch 'throw' distance fixed this easily. Of course, with these wonderfully cantankerous vehicles, ANYTHING is possible, but YES...CHECK THE CLUTCH FIRST.

GOOD LUCK!

Glyn

Power Surge 01-31-2008 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwd (Post 810441)
Never heard of this before. They do sometimes get stuck in 2 gears at once during shipping or if you pull it into neutral without using the clutch when there is torque against the gears.
This man's problem is with the clutch, not the transmission.
I have seen many posts from TKO600 owners concerning issues with the trans getting stuck in a gear, or not going into a gear. And this is not while you're driving, you just get in the car after it's sat, and it's stuck in gear.

Here's one post.... First Coast Cobra Club • View topic - I'm stuck in 1st gear.

jwd 01-31-2008 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Surge (Post 810491)
I have seen many posts from TKO600 owners concerning issues with the trans getting stuck in a gear, or not going into a gear. And this is not while you're driving, you just get in the car after it's sat, and it's stuck in gear.

Here's one post.... First Coast Cobra Club • View topic - I'm stuck in 1st gear.
I believe the problem that was in the link above stemmed from the shift lug slipping on the rail or something like that. Probably from being pulled out of gear with torque on the gears. I've rebuilt many trans. but never had a TKO apart so I'm not sure how their shift rails are set up. I've never had a problem with mine or know of anyone personally that has. The internet makes any problem seem more common than it actually is because the one's having the problem are very vocal. If everyone that never had a problem with a TKO posted it on every forum, the internet would be flooded with happy TKO owners.
Regardless, the problem with the original poster is the clutch.

Power Surge 01-31-2008 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwd (Post 810502)
I believe the problem that was in the link above stemmed from the shift lug slipping on the rail or something like that. Probably from being pulled out of gear with torque on the gears. I've rebuilt many trans. but never had a TKO apart so I'm not sure how their shift rails are set up. I've never had a problem with mine or know of anyone personally that has. The internet makes any problem seem more common than it actually is because the one's having the problem are very vocal. If everyone that never had a problem with a TKO posted it on every forum, the internet would be flooded with happy TKO owners.
Regardless, the problem with the original poster is the clutch.
You're right. I was thinking ahead as I was reading, before even finishing his post. Clutch is it for sure.

I did a POS Spec clutch in an 03 Mustang a while back, and the car did the same thing. Had to shut it off to get it into gear. Wouldn't go in reverse or 1st running. The clutch was actually warped (brand new) and never fully released.

Rickd 01-31-2008 10:07 PM
A friend of mine who bought my previous Unique FIA, and is a retired driveline engineer for Chrysler, also says "sounds like a clutch problem". Thanks for the comments. Rickd

strictlypersonl 02-01-2008 04:54 AM
Test the clutch function this way:

With the car on a level surface, release the handbrake.
Put the car in reverse with the engine not running.
Start the engine with the clutch pedal fully depressed.

Does the car creep at all?

How much do you have to raise the clutch pedal before it does? Any juddering?

Unfortunately, this test is imperfect if the driven-disc's friction material is coming off the plate.

Rickd 02-01-2008 05:27 AM
Bob, starts in reverse, no creeping, raise the clutch pedal 1 inch and the car moves.

Rick

patrickt 02-01-2008 07:11 AM
Well, before you start unbolting your seats and pulling your tunnel, take a few minutes and adjust your clutch. Here is what I wrote another ERA owner on how to do just that a while back. That thread was here: http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/newr...reply&p=751274 and I'll copy my post below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 751274)
When I say “adjust the clutch” I mean adjusting the slave cylinder to clutch fork clearance so there is no unnecessary pressure on the throw out bearing. As your clutch disc breaks in the clutch fork will move closer to the slave cylinder (with a “push slave cylinder” like we have), so you have to adjust the clearance on it. 1900 miles is a good time to adjust it since it’s probably nicely broken in now. Here’s how to do it:

1) Here is a picture of the slave cylinder on my ERA, yours is probably identical. Note the return spring, the silver looking locknut that is on the threaded rod coming out of the slave cylinder, and the brass colored fitting that is on the rod next to the locknut and that actually contacts the clutch fork.

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/data/500/slave.jpg

2) Remove the return spring and back off the silver locknut and brass colored fitting about a quarter inch or more towards the slave cylinder. You will need two half inch wrenches to do this. One to attach to the lock nut or the brass colored fitting, and the second to go around the nut that is on the very end of the threaded rod behind the clutch fork. You hold that nut to prevent the entire rod assembly from just rotating as you try to unscrew the nut or fitting. Use your finger and push the end of the threaded rod back in to the slave cylinder and you should now have an obvious distance (a quarter to a half inch) between the brass colored fitting and the clutch fork. The clutch fork is now in its natural position with no pressure on the throw out bearing and the brass colored fitting is not touching the clutch fork.

3) Use your fingers and tighten the brass colored fitting until it is tight against the clutch fork. Put a .063" feeler gauge between the silver locknut and the brass colored fitting and tighten the silver locknut so there is a .063" distance between the locknut and the fitting and the fitting is tight against the clutch fork. Remove the feeler gauge and tighten the brass colored fitting back up tight against the silver locknut without moving the locknut. Thus there is now a .063" distance between the fitting and the clutch fork and the locknut is tight against the brass colored fitting. Put the spring back on.

ERA2188 02-01-2008 07:42 AM
Patrick. If I had a 427 your suggestion would be excellent. However I have an FIA car and UNFORTUNATELY they are all set up using an internal hydraulic throwout bearing. They don't have the external slave and fork setup. So it becomes more of a pain. I am waiting to talk to Doug at ERA for his recommendation. Thanks, Rick

patrickt 02-01-2008 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA2188 (Post 810647)
Patrick. If I had a 427 your suggestion would be excellent. However I have an FIA car and UNFORTUNATELY they are all set up using an internal hydraulic throwout bearing...
Sorry, my mistake. Hydro T/O bearings are extremely sensitive to proper setup and there is no shortage of scare stories regarding them on this board. I think you're going to probably have to pull your bellhousing and have a look-see. Sorry.:(

Jim Holden 02-01-2008 01:19 PM
Doug will advise, I'm sure, but it sounds like a very small adjustment in the hydraulic throw out bearing distance should cure the problem. On mine, it's a matter of turning the bearing slightly on a threaded sleeve. (A wire tie is used to try and prevent the bearing from turning on the sleeve). Problem is you have to pull the trans to get at it. (Doug may know of some trick to adjust it through the bell housing throw out arm hole...)

Jim

patrickt 02-01-2008 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Holden (Post 810792)
...Problem is you have to pull the trans to get at it. (Doug may know of some trick to adjust it through the bell housing throw out arm hole...)

Jim
I was thinking this morning that maybe it could be done that way -- "laparoscopic TOB surgery," so to speak. Certainly worth a try before going to the trouble of pulling everything.


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