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The authenticity angle highlights another issue to me as well.... FEs bored/stroked out to 482ci were never fitted or available way back when, were they? My personal view is that if the components were available in the 60s the it's OK to mix and match now, so a 427FE stroked out to 454 with a 428 crank is OK, but anything bigger is not really kosher. Cheers, Glen |
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Which brings us to one Kirkham option that wasn't mentioned on your other thread. The $16,000 "upgrade" to the original type suspension. :eek: |
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http://www.hitech-industries.com/CONNECTINGROD1.HTML . |
Windsor and FE rod weights,
Windsor rods can weight from 520-530 for a 260 motor and they get heavier until you hit the trans-am motor with 750 grams. stock 351 is about 695 to 710. These number also depend on fasteners.
FE motor range from 352 with about 700 grams to over 1,000 grams for the nascar rods. I have a box set of lemans rods that weight is 840 with out arp bolts in them, stock from ford. With blueprinting you can get them down to under 800 grams and still be safe to 6,500 rpms. Rick L. |
I'm going with an FE engine :-) I have been talking to Brent and he has put a nice package together. Anybody here with some of his engines?
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Avmaviator,
I would be happy to give you a list of references....some have even bought more than one from me. :) |
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This is not a small block Ford vs big block Ford question; it's a question of what engine should you put into a Kirkham 427-bodied replica. And if it had been deemed OK to install a small block, then what about a 4.6 Mustang, or a Coyote? Or a V6? OK, time to stop.:D Cheers! Glen |
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Now you need to determine if you want an aluminum or iron block, how much HP and TQ you want, how many cubic inches, and whether you want a single 4 BBL carb, double "4s", webers, or fuel injection.:3DSMILE: |
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Can we spill the beans on details of this FE?
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I don't now and have never bought the argument that once you start using modern suspesnsion, brakes, etc. etc. you've upset the apple cart and so now it's OK to run whatever modern motor you like as well.
It's NOT OK, in my opinion. You can tweek the the suspension and play with all kinds of variables through out the car, but the "motor" is the "soul". SOME Cobras demand certain motor's, other's not so much. ERA 427? Gotta be FE based, that's just the way it is. Kirkham, same thing. FFR? While small blocks are the rule of thumb, who knows what you might find lurking under the hood on any given car, no limits. FFR is pretty much a "no limits" car in all regards. Spice up the interior, go for some custom chrome wheels, heck, add a wing and some neon lights if you want. :) That doesn't make FFR good or bad, it's just a reality check. Now if you start going all "custom look" stuff on a Kirkham and add red crushed velvet interior, chrome wheels and a V6, your going to look like the fool you are. Changing the suspension is one thing, changing the interior and messing with the motor choice is a whole 'nother can of worms! |
Almost all the cranks on the market now will either use the sbc or bbc rod journal size and various lengths---I checked over 20 sets this morning of the rods for current builds in the shop here---some scat and the others Callies Compstar or Ultra (sorry didn't check any of the Lunaties) and various lengths---The Ford 302 style was lightest at mid 500 wts , small chev journal for small blocks most around 620 ( 6.0 length) and the BBC journal of various lengths would average around low 800 grams(814-835)
The cranks will weigh from high 50s(56-58 to low 70s (4.750 stroke)) biggest weight differances are in the piston/pin area because a short ch with real short/thin wall pin will vary drasticlly between the 4.0 and the 4.780 bores sizes. the Honda rod sizes are lighter but we aren't seeing many of them for any street type engines and I didn't currently have any to weigh. And the weight of the flywheel/clutch and harmonic dampner will be more significant that a few grams of piston weight. I have recently began to weight the cranks with the bob weights on them for some data but mostly to see how hard I'm working. |
A 100 grams difference times 8 pistons is 800 grams - divided by 454 g/lb and its darns near 2 pounds.
I never weighed them before, but my gut tells me that an entire rotating assembly (damper, flywheel, crank, rods, pistons, wrist pins, and rings) of an FE has to be significantly more than a Windsor. I know you can buy light weight stuff - especially if you have deep pockets. So an apples to apples comparison is appropriate. |
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I build as many FEs as about anybody by now. And we've done a bunch of small blocks.
The power will be determined by cylinder heads and displacement - and little else. I think I've proven that is numerous Engine Masters Challenge entries where my FE package has always been very competitive with the Cleveland headed entries and has beaten the occassional rare inline Windsor headed entry. The cosmetics are where the FE entry wins. These cars are rarely true race pieces where the last increment of weight and power take precedence over everything else. They are purchased for the elusive "cool factor" - the FE simply looks correct. It's the same reason a Harley has a V-twin, the reason a Rolex is cooler than a Timex even if both keep time. While limitations were there in the past, there are essentially no limits in performance for an FE build these days. FE stroker cranks run 67-70 pounds, with bobweights in the 2200s. I have had some really trick lightweight stuff - destroked with 2.00" journals - that dipped into the 1800s. The FE will come in around 100 pounds heavier than a Windsor. A Camry will be a more reliable and comfortable mode of transportation. But who cares? |
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