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SB100 PCV requirements
Sorry for the confusion here, but I thought the purpose of SB100 was to eliminate the requirement for all smog equipment. Reading through some of the posts, it looks like PCV valves ARE required. Does this apply to just motors set up with carburetor(s), or does it apply to stack injection motors as well?
My motor is stack injection with 8 throttle bodies. Will this set-up require a PCV valve? How do you set up a PCV valve for this configuration? I got my SB100 number in 2009. The make is listed as SPCNS. and First Year Sold is listed as 2008. I have not done the BAR inspection yet, but would like to have the motor configured properly for the appointment. |
I believe they only hold you to the PCV requirement on carbed engines.
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Lodi,
Short answer is I don't know, you will probably just have to find out what they want when you go for your inspection. Sounds like it could be difficult with the setup you have, wonder how one would do the PCV setup on a motor with Weber carbs? |
Are they going to actually see if the PCV system is working? If not, install a PCV valve in the valve cover, connect a piece of hose to it, connect the other end to a "dummy" fitting that is "attached" to the intake.
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I talked with the Regional BAR Manager for Sacramento yesterday and he says PCV's ARE required, even on EFI stack motors.
My engine builder says not true... Motors have been passed without PCV's. So I am wondering if the rule interpretation varies at different BAR stations..? Setting up a PCV on a EFI stack motor is difficult because of the low vacuum at idle. I would like to talk to someone who passed BAR without a PCV to get more details on station location, how long ago the test was done, etc. |
I think the concern from the BAR is any valve cover or crankcase vents that are open to the air though breather caps, I know that when I had my inspection they would not allow the valve cover opposite the pcv valve to have a breather cap it had to be connected to the air filter base.
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I'm in the same boat, although with Webers. Anybody have any suggsetions on how to get through this?
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I would suggest getting an answer from the BAR official on how to meet this requirement. If they insist that it be there and you have no way to resonably install this system then your only option may be to show up on inspection day with a conventional intake and carb setup;)
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Quote:
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Just got off the phone with the BAR, explained my issue, and they referred me to a referee station. Told me to make an appointment, have the car inspected (and failed, presumably) find out the inspector's suggestions, make those repairs, and then make another appointment.
I called the referee, you can only make an appointment, can't speak to anyone up front. Gotta love the government, a picture of efficiency. |
I would suggest taking pictures of your engine and then take the pictures to the BAR and ask them where they would like it hooked up.
My guess is this, If you have breathers on both valve covers, purchase the closed system valve cover breathers. Install a T into your intake and then hook up both valve cover breathers to that. As long as your valve covers do not breathe into the open air and gets vented back into the engine, BAR should be happy. All they care about is a closed system. I delt with the inspectors in Modesto. They were very nice guys. FYI, they will take pictures of your engine showing the setup. They even let me place the SB100 sticker where (in the engine compartment) that I wanted. Then they took a picture of the SB100 sticker on the car. This all gets sent to Sacramento and filed away. They did not even check to see if it was functional. Just that it was there. I asked if they wanted me to take it off so they could see everything and all they wanted to see was if the breathers were closed system or not. Edit: For LodiWino, You might want to give Corky ro Mark a call at "Street Rods Plus". They might be able to help you out and possibly have everything that you need. |
Terry,
The problem with the Weber intake, is that each carb venturi goes to a single runner, which goes to a single cylinder. There is no provision for vacuume lines etc. You'd have to pick a single intake runner, and tap into that one. Then, that one and only cylinder would be responsible for burning all the crankcase vapors. My 1967 Porsche had no PCV, just a vent going to the carb filter on one side. It was legal from new that way. I don't know why I shouldn't be able to do the same with my "1965" GT40? |
I see what you are getting at. What about taking pictures of your setup, showing them to the REF'S and asking them?
Just did a search and found this, http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/shop...ve-webers.html Would this work for you guys? |
Terry,
I did read that thread, and I'm not about to try to duplicate it. Since I have to have an appointment just to talk to the guy, I'll probably just drive the car there and ask him what needs to be done. If it sounds too onerous, I'll probably swap out the intake, carb and valve covers, and put them on for the inspection. I don't really want to do all that extra work, if I don't have to, but it doesn't sound like anybody has taken webers through the BAR since the pcv requirement started. |
Does seem like a lot of work but I am sure that it could be done a bit easier. What are you doing to vent the crankcase now?
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At the moment, there is only a breather on one valve cover. I plan on removing that, and hooking up a filtered air-oil separator on the firewall.
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http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...d=7422&thumb=1 http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...d=7423&thumb=1 http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...d=7424&thumb=1 http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...d=7426&thumb=1
Here are some pictures of the cammer intake that Art Chrisman modified for me. This is a hilborn carabine unit,he drilled all the runners and plumbed the stainless steel lines to a common block that can be used for vacuum or PCV valve. I also have a 260 I'm building with webers, I'll just switch intakes, bending that stainless steel takes longer than changing intakes. |
Looks very nice, but more work than I was hoping to do.
I'm trying to keep the look period, and for that, simpler is better. |
The BAR forced to me to install a PCV. They read the casting number of the 427 block and said I needed to meet 1965 PCV requirements. I argued. The referee was a real dick about it. Its smog exempt...why!! Gave me a copy of PCV system from 1965 motor manual. I left, installed the PCV and went back and passed. I don't think the referee on duty the second time around really cared. Maybe you can fudge in something to get by.
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Hi Ron,
Gotta see your new toy. Been awhile, but as I recall there are two popular types of pcv. Most 65s had type 3 or type 4. Type 4 vents the crankcase to the manifold with an air box overflow pipe and type 3 runs the crankcase to the airbox. Type 3 runs richer with age because extra blowby draws more fuel through the carb, so more vehicles came with type 4. If you can run type 3 that would be more simple with your setup. See if you can run a type 3 pcv. David |
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