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2Likes
10-12-2015, 02:37 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Shelby Block Rear Main Seal Leak
I have a new Shelby 468 and after only 18 miles running, it is leaking a fair amount of oil at the rear main cap.
The oil appears to be leaking at the oil pan gasket exactly where the gasket passes over the main cap / block joint on both sides. I'm using an Aviad oil pan + windage tray.
I've found some threads on CC and also FE forum explaining problems with early Shelby blocks leaking due to insufficient drain hole size in the rear main cap and explanation how to modify the main cap & oil pan to solve the problem. However, the photos seem to have been removed from the threads so I can't see the before & after countermeasures.
Can anyone help with the following:
1) Pictures of how the Shelby rear main bearing cap oil leak it countermeasured
2) Has anyone tried to remove an Aviad oil pan from an FE mounted in a Kirkham? Can it be done?
Oh, before anyone chimes in with the leak is probably coming from somewhere else an find it's way to the rear.......It isn't. I've checked ALL the usual FE leak spots and then some. The motor is dry except for the rear main seal area.
Many thanks
Stuart
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10-12-2015, 04:26 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 136
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10-13-2015, 04:39 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Brooklyn-427,
Thanks for the link, I'll try seaching through that later tonight.
Anyone else got some more direct info. / experience with Shelby FE blocks?
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10-13-2015, 10:52 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Columbus,
OH
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 714
Posts: 713
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Not Ranked
I have Block 597 and have a similar leak. I have managed to slow it considerably by taking some RTV to the rear of the pan where it mounts up to the block. I am not sure that the repair is worth going after trying to fix it unless you can be 100% sure it will be fixed. I also run the Aviad oil pan. I think the rear of the intake seal also leaks and drains down the blockplate and drips. It may be worth using the dyes to verify that it is alll coming from that location.
Phil
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10-13-2015, 11:15 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Thanks Phil,
My block is CSX472 so earlier than yours and should have the improved drain in the rear main cap. Do you know if your main cap was the improved version from Shelby? I've also thought about applying some RTV between the pan & block plate, but that does feel like a temporary sticking plaster over the root cause. You are right though, I could spend a lot of time & effort removing the engine and trying to re-seal that area only to find it's no better. I have checked everywhere else and I'm pretty sure it's the rear seal. Life's a b*tch sometimes!
Stuart
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10-13-2015, 12:04 PM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Not Ranked
I have Shelby block #197 and the Aviad pan too.
Thanks to this site, I am a firm believer in the Motorcraft TA-31 RTV sealant (amazing nasty stuff!) and I always keep a pair of Milodon #40450 pan gaskets hanging on the wall just in case. I have yet to have to use them.
As far as removing an Aviad pan in the car, I seem to remember the Kirkham's posting some advice on that subject a long time ago. Might do another search or give them a call.
All that said, I have minimal problems with rear leak. Knocking on wood!
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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10-13-2015, 12:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Thanks Bernica,
If I can't find the thread, I might e-mail David to confirm an easy way of removing the oil pan without removing the engine.
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10-13-2015, 12:51 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 136
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Not Ranked
just a thought.. i read in another thread about a aviaid oil pan that was fitted using bolts rather than studs, the result was the bolts were a tad too long and had not clamped the pan down onto the gasket enough, thus causing a leak because the bolts were a fraction too long. They swapped out to the correct studs and corrected the problem. Worth looking too see if you have bolts or studs.
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10-13-2015, 02:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Brooklyn-427,
Thanks for the thought, but I have studs & nuts. I also checked tightness because I know the gaskets can relax a little from new. However, all nuts seemed snug. I guess I've been unlucky with this engine. Don't whether to try and bodge it with RTV as Large Arbor suggests and then live with it until I need to pull the engine again, or bite the bullet now after only 18 miles of running and pull the engine and try an re-seal the rear main cap seals.........sooooooo frustrating! I finally got to experience 600hp in a lightweight Kirkham and was blown away by the acceleration. All I want to do is drive the thing and enjoy it.........not blow oil out of the back of the engine!
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10-13-2015, 03:36 PM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Not Ranked
Do you also have a windage tray installed?
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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10-13-2015, 04:01 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 618
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Not Ranked
Hey since talk is cheap, my oil problems were related to an engine builder improperly calibrating the oil dip stick...The full line was about 50% beyond the capacity of the pan manufacturer's figure. When i filled mine to the oil pan mfg's figure my dipstick didn't register anything.
Could it be that you simply have too much oil in the engine? Filling it clear up to the seal?
Just a thought.
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Superformance 1764
Ford Racing 427 SB
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10-13-2015, 04:48 PM
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Full Blown Member
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 427 S/C, Twin Paxton 511 FE
Posts: 2,594
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Not likely, tortuga. FE's leak before they're assembled
I don't mind the leak in itself, it's the mess it makes on the chassis.
That's why I'm in the process of experimenting with diapers (New Pig strips with Gorilla tape at the bottom of the bellhousing and between the block and blockplate). Normally I wouldn't think of such a cockamamie scheme but I have so much access now that I have a Kwik Lift...
...I can see every pinhead sized drop, with my own pinhead eyes
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rodneym
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10-13-2015, 05:55 PM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodneym
Not likely, tortuga. FE's leak before they're assembled
I don't mind the leak in itself, it's the mess it makes on the chassis.
That's why I'm in the process of experimenting with diapers (New Pig strips with Gorilla tape at the bottom of the bellhousing and between the block and blockplate). Normally I wouldn't think of such a cockamamie scheme but I have so much access now that I have a Kwik Lift...
...I can see every pinhead sized drop, with my own pinhead eyes
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Like my old Jags...
If I don't see oil on the floor, then something is wrong!
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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10-14-2015, 04:47 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Bernica,
Yes I have a windage tray installed, it cam with the Avaid oil pan.
Tortuga,
I have calibrated the dipstick according to Avaid's procedure - put 9 qrts in from empty - mark dipstick 'Full' - start engine and run until primed, then stop & allow oil in pan to settle - Mark dipstick 'Low' - top up with oil to the full mark. It might be worth reducing oil volume to 8 qrts and see if the leak diminishes?
General question for everyone: Do you run 8 or 9 qrts with an FE Avaid pan?
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10-14-2015, 07:36 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 136
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Not Ranked
Stuart
How do you find the CR toploader with the 3.07?
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10-14-2015, 09:53 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Columbus,
OH
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 714
Posts: 713
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Not Ranked
I run 9 quarts when I run which for past month has not been any due to starter alignment issues. Going after that issue this weekend.
Phil
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10-14-2015, 10:05 AM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Not Ranked
I am at 11 quarts with the Aviad and an oil cooler. I always buys a case and have one left.
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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10-14-2015, 02:57 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn-427
Stuart
How do you find the CR toploader with the 3.07?
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CR Toploader is fine with a 3.07 rear end. 1st gear is fairly tall but manageable in traffic, motorway cruise at 80mph around 3,000rpm. Acceleration between gears is pretty rapid. I don't like 5 speed gearboxes in a Cobra.
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10-14-2015, 03:01 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cleveland,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: #535 Kirkham 427, 427 Side Oiler
Posts: 157
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Large Arbor
I run 9 quarts when I run which for past month has not been any due to starter alignment issues. Going after that issue this weekend.
Phil
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Thanks Phil,
Looks like I'm not overfilling anyway.
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10-14-2015, 04:13 PM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by A98Coupe
CR Toploader is fine with a 3.07 rear end. 1st gear is fairly tall but manageable in traffic, motorway cruise at 80mph around 3,000rpm. Acceleration between gears is pretty rapid. I don't like 5 speed gearboxes in a Cobra.
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I run 3:31 with a WR and like the setup. Yes, I'm not a fan of 5 or 6 speeds either!
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All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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