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Lets play, "Guess that Engine Block!!"
Ok, I really appreciate your help so far. This has been tremendously confusing (see Bought a 428 fot a 390)
K. Wilson came over and did two tests on the block. The drill bit test and a Sonic Measurement. Keith will find this amuzing, but yes we did read the instructions for the sonic unit.:LOL: Don't tell our wives. Here are the drill bit results: (cylinder spacing-drill bit)/2 1-2 (.508-.25)/2 = .129 2-3 (.502-.265)/2 = .118 3-4 (.507-.25)/2 = .128 5-6 (.508-.235)/2 = .136 6-7 (.506-.235)/2 = .135 7-8 (.507-.25)/2 = .128 Check my math. Next sonic test: ioutside inside 1 .138 .161 2 .184 .146 3 .178 .136 4 .178 .152 8 .123 .193 7 .139 .193 6 .136 .171 5 .142 .176 Outside refers to the "thrust" side. Even though it is stamped 352 in the water jacket, how can this be? It has definitely been honed if not bored too. All cylinders measure 4.13 plus or minus (mostly minus) a few thousandths. A standard 352 is 4.0 implying that the boring would have required 130 thousandths meaning that the original wall thickness would have been between 0.2 -0.24 give or take. What do you all think? Can it run as a 428 standard bore? (no more boring) Mike Mike |
Just as all things,everyone will have their own opinion, but I think it would be safe to run.
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Mike,
JMHO it might be best if you post this on the FE forum. www.fordfe.com This topic has been covered in detail there. Dave Shoe detailed the drill bit test there and they are a great group. Tom Johnson |
as far as I can tell in my limited research on ford blocks is that their casting numbers and actual block dimensions are more often than not , a "shot in the dark"...... I may be wrong...... but....
Have a good one, Dan |
Tom Johnson,
Thanks for the tip...could you be more specific? I went there...there is a lot of info...could you narrow this down a bit? I will post this over there as soon as they let me in. Mike |
Try this thread
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/...geid=991172010 it has references to other drill bit test threads, but since you alreay sonic checked it, you could probably just post those numbers and the guru's there could tell you how much boring/HP before you blow out a cylinder. The 352 is on almost all FE blocks, from the 352 to the 427, so it is basically only identifying it as an FE. The only reliable numbers are really on the crank itself. It should be a 1U or 1UA or 1UB (there may be others) to indicate the proper stroke for a 428. Woods428 is right, block casting numbers basiclly only tell you that it is an FE, not much else. I am only an rookie at this, but these things I am sure of, I would leave the rest to the FE forum. tj61@juno.com |
Mike.
It's been my understanding that while all FE's have the 352 cast into the front of the block, the casting number inside the water jacket designates the displacement that block was cast for. Every one I've checked has been right anyhow. Doug |
My 66 passenger car 428 block has a large inverted "A" cast on the back of the block on the driver's side. I have been told that this is one of the identifiers for a 428. The crank and bore completed the picture but the "A" told us that we were probably looking at a 428 in the first place.
There are apparently a lot of 428's out there made from punched out 390's. A sonic check will verify integrity put I hear that they are sometimes a bear to keep cool even if the wall thickness is not too bad. Now if you bought a block and you were told it was a 428 and it isn't, that is a different story. A 37 year old engine that only needs a hone and the bore checks out to be standard 428???? Keep checking.... Gary |
My block has HP2 cast in backwards as though someone had scratched it into the sand before casting the block. Does this veryify that it is a 427? Or is this a reference to the alloy (eg nickle) content of the block?
Paul |
I once saw a with my own eyes a standard bore 390, sort of a pewter color with the stands for the cross drilled main cap configuration (the holes were not drilled but it was machined to be drilled). The water jacket said 352 and the back said 66 427. It wasn't sleeved. It had all the beefed up ribbing of a 427.
Good things just happen. This was a 427 side oiler pulled off the 427 line and sent to the 390 line. Who knows why or how or how many there were like it... |
I've got a '64 390 block configured that way, it was a Ford remanufactured engine (tagged) that I yanked from a '64 'bird. It is .040 over though.
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ID Source
Paul,
Here is a great link for use in IDing a block. It does not answer all questions but does narrow the field. I am thinking of e-mailing this fellow. Mike http://www.428cobrajet.com/id-block.html |
Fascinating!
That is a great story! I can see pulling a block to make a smaller bore engine...but I don't get the water jacket stuff.
I am beggining to beleive that what I have is a 390 built from a 428 block that was then bored and honed to 428 specs. The sonic tests seem to bear that out. For my final piece of evidence, I look to the casting numbers. On this block is a C6ME- (yes, there is a dash, but nothing following.) The 352, 390, and 428 all shared C6ME-A, but only the 390 and 428 had the C6ME (according to my book.) If there was no dash, this would be a slam dunk (sort of) but perhaps when they pulled it from the 428 line, they ground it off to indicate this. Would have been better if they took the dash too. What do you think? Mike |
This is more complicated than the guy who was trying to identify a 427 as a NASCAR 427 or just a regular 427! Engine ID is a can of worms at best!
Ernie |
Earnie,
The older they get the harder it will be. Too bad some kind of serious VIN system had not been in place. Guess at that time nobody knew folks would be collecting them 40 years later! Anybody got an opinion on those Genisis Blocks? Mike |
Mike,
By going strictly with your sonic mapping numbers I wouldn't have a problem using your block for a naturally aspirated, 400 to 450 hp street engine with a good cooling system. The one thing strange about your sonic map is the block seems to have the bores core-shifted the opposite of what is normal. The major cylinder wall thrust surface on a V-8 engine that rotates clock-wise would be on the inside cylinder wall on the right (passenger) side on on the outer cylinder wall on the left (driver) side. If I'm reading your map correctly, your block has these thrust surfaces reversed. In my opinion, you still have enough cylinder wall for a hot street engine though. HTH, --Mike |
Core-shifting
Let me think about it and see if I posted them in reverse.
Thanks for the info! Mike |
I hate to comment when I dont know for sure,but is it possible the non bored but machined blocks were 391 truck blocks,they were made from the same castings as 427's,,I have been told from a good source.
tk |
I think the FT blocks had a hole in the side (sometimes with an allen plug) that served as an oil drain back. I'm also pretty certain they had CT casting #'s(or DT on the later ones).
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Nobody who has seen the block has even thought FT. No drain plug either. I have not looked at the casting numbers for a FT, but the one on this block is C6ME- (yes, there appears to be a dash and nothing following)
Perhaps if I do not have a huge honeydoo list, I will post pics this weekend. Mike |
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