Genesis Has Cast Aluminum Blocks

Keithc8 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-29-2003, 09:48 PM

I received a call from Genesis today with the news that they have cast four aluminum blocks. They said they would machine end of this week or first of next week. they would like to make a trip down to the shop to bring a few cast iron blocks and one aluminum block for testing. we will be building a high horsepower engine with this block to see how it hold up. things are starting to get interesting. Let build some FE's now.

CobraBoy · #2 (**permalink**) 10-31-2003, 08:14 AM

What I'd like is an alloy block 427 built to Competition spec., with a hi-riser 427, single 4-barrel carburettor, dry sump oil system, etc. Circa 550 bhp. In a Kirkham. That's my dream.........

Have a great weekend, everybody.

Turk · #3 (**permalink**) 10-31-2003, 08:46 AM

Keith,
If Genesis finally cast 4 blocks, don't they have them spoken them to people who have given them deposits and have been waiting for them for the last 4 years or so?

Are these four extra ones they have to sell, after meeting those demands?

TURK

Keithc8 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-31-2003, 10:22 PM

I spoke with Tim about this when he called me about testing these. When they cast blocks you generaly will have to cast more than one because no one will set up to cast only one. I say this because I do not want to mislead anyone. I have not been sold any blocks nor has anyone as of yet. Genesis has had a hard time getting these blocks of the ground and cast, both the cast iron and the aluminum. Tim wants me to test inspect amd test one before he sends any out to customers that are waiting. They have gotten some bad PR on some of the cast iron blocks and most people do not understand what goes into casting a block. i got some blocks that had a few problems but they knew i could fix them and make them work but the average cosumer would not been able to do that. So when we get this aluminum block tested then they will begin to fill back orders. If we can hange there a lottle longer i believe we will have some really nice FE stuff available with all the new parts that are coming. Thanks

Turk · #5 (**permalink**) 10-31-2003, 10:47 PM

To beat a dead horse a little further....
Is this not a very similar story told by Ron Miller of Performance Power Parts few years back? That they were testing and making mods to then "soon to be released" Genesis blocks.

I believe there have been other machine shops since who spoke on behalf of Genesis, and nothing came out of it.

I am in no way questioning YOUR sincerity or integrity. I just have this ill feeling, FE community has been waiting and waiting for something that was supposed to be released 4 or more years ago, and have not seen it come to fruition.

They were taking deposits then. What happened? Did they refund all those deposits?

TURK

Lew Ledyard · #6 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 07:13 AM

Why not just go with a Shelby block? Are the any advantages with a Genesis?

Turk · #7 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 07:28 AM

No disadvantge or advantage. No Genesis block for the masses.
It is a benign farse. Hasn't hurt anyone unless deposits were lost or projects tabled waiting for the release of this magical piece of engineering for 5 years.

TURK

Cracker · #8 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 07:52 AM

I think the only percieved "advantage" would be that the Genisis iteration would be an aluminum Side-Oiler design whereas the Shelby block is a top oiler configuration ( although it amazes me that I've seen so many owners confused/misguided/wishfull thinking - whatever, regarding this point. I personally would not hesitate to go the Shelby route and never look back if I were in the market. I've been to Shelby's shop and have witnessed firsthand the installation of the sleeves and dyno services in Carson and couldn't contemplate going the Genisis route given the choice (not there's anything wrong with Genisis

.

PatBuckley · #9 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 08:14 AM

Cracker -

Suppose you could tell us exactly how the Shelby aluminum block is a top oiler?

Thanks,

Pat

btsai · #10 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 09:19 AM

I had also heard that the Shelby FE engine block is not of side-oiler design.

In this article, http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...5em_sideoiler/ they say:

"The oiling system is more conventional than the original side oiler..." I'm not sure the accuracy of the quote, however. {Also note that the editors at Popular Hot Rodding have even mis-named the article as "smallblock" and "sideoiler" (see exact text of link above).}

Another interesting thing, you'll notice the specific absence of the mention of "side-oiler" on the Shelby Enterprises web site. I'd bet that if it was a side-oiler design, they would promote it heavily. Think about it. Are people more likely to ask you if you have an "FE", or a "side-oiler"?

Perhaps Keith can clarify?

Ben

weekendwarrior · #11 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 09:33 AM

SFfiredog

Did a very detailed explanation with pictures on the Shelby oiling this year, a search would bring up the info.

TerrysSPF · #12 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 12:01 PM

I just recieved info on the Shelby block the other day. Here is what they say in their brochure about the "SO design" on their Aluminum Blocks:

- Ford's 427 side oiler block won on the NASCAR Super Speedway and at Le Mans. The Shelby FE block not only retains the side oiling concept, but further improves it. Rather than running the oil galley just above the oil pan, it's been raised up beside the camshaft. Called "priority main oiling", the oil flow is directed to the mains first, before flowing to the cam bearings. This helps maximize crank life. The block is designed to accomodate wet or dry sump oil systems.-

Sounds like they've done their homework, and from what I hear from people that have built their engine around this block, they are very happy.

ERA Chas · #13 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 03:14 PM

I think we should welcome Mr. Craft's efforts to help Genesis R&D their equipment since he is freely sharing the info with us in this very public forum. His labors will help insure a quality product and result in a wider choice of equipment for we FE fans. Competition and a wider playing field will benefit us all AND Keith's customer list. Win, win. My 2cents worth.

Turk · #14 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 03:28 PM

Chas,
I welcome Keith's and everyone else's R&D to this elusive engine.
In the past I have been supportive of Ron Miller when he announced the same. George Anderson during the recent years.
I also believe there was a gentleman name Shoe or something like that on the FE forum.

Many of us have been waiting with baited breath for this engine. I for one HOPE it happens. I am NOT alone.

I even subscribed to FE Journal, for any news I could get.

Wish everyone the best. Just a little cynical, that is all.

TURK

BLACKJACK · #15 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 03:54 PM

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE GENESIS BLOCK - IRON AND ALUMINUM - IS A DEAD RINGER OF THE ORIGINAL 427 S/O.

EVEN TO THE 1966 CASTING MARKS. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE "CROSS BOLTS" ON THE GENESIS TAKE A 5/8" WRENCH INSTEAD OF A 9/16.

AT LEAST THAT WAS THE GAME PLAN THREE YEARS AGO.

I'M ALL FOR PERFORMANCE BUT I ALSO LIKE AS MUCH ORIGINALITY AS I CAN GET.

BIG "COMFORT" ISSUE HERE: IF KEITH CRAFT IS GOING TO BUILD THEM THEN THE CREDIBILITY FACTOR JUMPS UP A FEW ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THREE YEARS FOR THE GENESIS BLOCKS. I CAN WAIT A LITTLE LONGER. I JUST HOPE MY PRESENT ENGINE CAN WAIT A LITTLE LONGER AS WELL.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

Cracker · #16 (**permalink**) 11-01-2003, 05:47 PM

Thank goodness…

Genesis blocks are not "dead ringers". We have a local member in Atlanta who was one of the first to build one of these and can be identified as different than "originals" by the oil chamber on the side of the block. Anyone who knows or has an original side-oiler can easily tell the difference. That's just what we don't need - dead ringer copies of a rare engine. BTW, in this friends case the oil passages were not completed to the heads and they had to be drilled out. What a surprise that would have caused

but in this case a competent builder caught the casting/machining error in the block. I say role the dice hope you get a good one - or just by a Shelby! (and NO I don't work for them or sell them)

Keithc8 · #17 (**permalink**) 11-02-2003, 04:07 PM

One reason I have received some of the Genesis blocks is because we ordered ten up front[cast iron] and they knew we would check all things needed. The average shop or customer does not pressure check, check all oil galleys to make sure they are drilled, and not drilled into water. We have found the oil passages from the cam to top of block broke tgrough to water. We blocked these of and used on the T & D rockers which oil through the lifter and pushrod. We have had a few blocks that broke through on the oil galley on front where it connects to slant galley to the top center galley for lifter oiling. We blocked these of and brought the oil up from the rear main and cam bearing to oil the top. We can fix about anything and I told Genesis to give me all they had and I would fix and make my customers happy with horsepower and dependability. Which have been lacking with the FE over the last several years with these stock blocks. We have split the stock block at 740HP and I wanted anything better. As far as the Shelby block I would like to set something straight about the oiling system, it is the same as the blocks you see winning NASCAR racing today. It is apriority oiling system with the mains and rods getting oiled first and the up stairs afterwords. I don't even know if some of these guys relize that you can restrict oil to top of the engines with this block depending on the lifter used helping the lower end get that much more oil. This can also be done on the side oiler as well. The only differnece is where the galley is and some people have in there heads that if it is not a side oiler it will not work. I know some people want the nostalgic look as well. We can even put the casting number on the blocks if that is what you want. I think there is going to be some great things available for FE die hards soon. We are going to get some more blocks from genesis that no one else would fix and called junk. We will take thoes and make over 700HP with them as well like we have already done. I told Genesis to give me all the ones nobody else wanted and we would fix them and be happy. I look forward to helping with any block you may have. I have two original Ford side oilers and if you want a C5AE-A number on it for emissions or original look I will fix you up. Thanks

misfit41 · #18 (**permalink**) 11-07-2003, 11:46 AM

It still amazes me that Shelby takes a beating here on what ever he touches,the Alloy SA block is NOT a center or top oiler,it is a MUCH improved version of the side oiler configured in a way that slinging a rod thru the left side dosent destroy the block as in the original ones,the oil galleys are just moved up ,it still works the same,it's a good deal,,wish i could afford one,,Tk

ENTDOC · #19 (**permalink**) 11-07-2003, 12:52 PM

I do not think the folks here are slamming the Shelby block.They are only pointing out that it is not a replica of the original sideoiler block, no more than any new NASCAR block is a SO.It is a main priority oiled block and very modern and efficient( the SO is of course a 35 year old design) I have no doubt that the Shelby block is at least as good and probably better than the old SO however it is not a SO. Just calling it what it is. chuck



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