FE EXPERTS! Need help with 427SO

[TerrysSPF]

Looking for help / advice on what to do with a 427SO. I have an oil leak in the rear of the engine, pass. side, that looks to be coming from where the head and the manifold meet. It's spraying, so it's hard to tell exactly where it's coming from even with a mirror. Hoping just a head, or intake gasket. I hear this spot is prone to leaks.
Anyway, I'm thinking that if the manifold has to be removed, I may install one of those tall breathers on the rear of the manifold, and then going with dual pcv's on the valve covers. I hear this is the hot set up on FE's lately. Currently, the engine has 1 pcv on the pass. side valve cvr., and 1 breather on the drivers side.
Anyone out there with this set up? Any PRO's / CON's to running it this way?? If the leak turns out to be a head or valve cover gasket, and the manifold doesn't have to be removed, would you consider doing it anyway and installing the tall breather? Is it THAT beneficial??
Anyone recommend any OTHER type of set up?? Since I'm fixing the leak, I figure now's the time to make any changes!
I appreciate any help / suggestions you FE guys may have!!! Thanks in advance!

[bmalone]

THis is a common leak--passenger side at the head/intake joint. Mine leaks. You can attempt to repair--probably will not last. Clean the area real good. Take your time; try to dry the joint as well. Then force a quality sealant into the joint. I used Toyota cam and oil pan sealer. Held for about 6 months and has only started leaking slightly again.

THis leak is often caused by the intake manifold gasket moving as you line up the manifold. There are many methods, but here's mine: apply sealer to bottom of gasket and sealer to the joint area and where there are gaps. Then lift the manifold straight down onto the motor, trying not to wiggle it.

I have the rear tube and two valve cover breathers--seems to work well.

[TerrysSPF]

bmalone: Thanks for the reply / advice! I checked out your engine in your gallery (nice car by the way!) and saw your set up. Your tall manifold breather looks just like the one I recently ordered. It is simply a "breather" and not a "filler tube"....correct?
Looks like you have 2 more breathers, 1 on each valve cover. No pcv?
I have also seen the pcv hooked up to the rear of the manifold, and a breather on each valve cover, but was told this is not the best way to go.

[Cracker]

TerrySPF

First of all I'm no expert like your title asks for BUT... I have a breather on each valve cover and a single pcv at the back of the intake and have had no problems with the setup. In fact, my engine does not leak at the intake/head/block joint after most recent rebuild. Like bmalone suggested apply a small amount of permatex sealer to intake (small) to hold in place and across the valley and be super careful lowering the intake into place. I personally like the simplicity of no extra wires/hoses connected throughout my engine - unnecessary ones anyhow.

When you mentioned "spraying" do you mean it actually is squirting out oil (like under mild pressure)? You might have something else going on. Best wishes!

BTW, I'm sure this isn't your problem since your not currently using a breather on the passenger side but in the past I found that the breather/caps/plugs etc. could be the culprit in oil leaks due to sealing a pressure.

[sierramadre45]

Give John Vermeersch at Total Performance a call. John is located in suburban Detroit and is widely regarded as one of the foremost FE experts in the country. He has been with Ford Motor Company since the '60's and is part of their racing organization.
Since you're relatively close (Chicago) John might even be able to arrange to have your car picked up so his team can take a good look at it. They built my 428FE and did a great job.

[bmalone]

Terry, yes, that's correct.

[weekendwarrior]

TerrysSPF, the leak was a common problem on passenger cars as well. We had an LTD with a 390 which finally required taking the hood off, four guys on each corner, and lifting the iron intake ever so gently into place. Took two attempts to get it right and get rid of the leak.

[RedCSX]

Terry,

As people have said this is a common and frustrating problem. It occurred with me right after rebuilding my 428CJ. This is how you correct the problem:
Buy Victor intake gaskets, not Felpro (they suck). Then go to the Dodge dealer and ask for rear end silicon gasket sealer, Cost 10.00, but it will be the best 10.00 you will spend.
Remove the intake, clean the area to make sure there is no oil, use alcohol or similar product. Do not use the front and rear intake gasket strip, they are known to slip. Use the silcon you bought from the dodge dealer to fill the gap. Let it set up over night.

Also use the dodge rearend silicon to secure the gasket to the valve cover, then use bearing grease between the gasket and the block, then will create a vaccum and prevent leaks. You should be good to go in the morning.

[TerrysSPF]

Thanks for the replies and advice!

Sierramadre45: Got a number for John @ Total Perf.? Do they have a web site?? That's a sweet engine, by the way (looked at your pics). Is that a tall breather on your manifold, or is that a filler tube (or both?)? The one I found is strictly a breather (cap doesn't come off). Looks just like bmalones. Where did you get yours? I've seen it on other FE's, but have never seen it for sale anywhere.

RedCSX: I've heard of people not using the gasket strips and just using sealer. That could be the solution I'm looking for.

Is anyone out there running dual pcv's - one on each valve cover, then using the tall breather on the rear of the manifold??

[TerrysSPF]

TTT Any pictures of dual PCV's out there????

[GT500INKC]

I joined the cobra forum becouse of the shop talk and FE talk I own a 67 shelby GT 500 390 with 3x2 I hope I can ask questions without making anyone mad becouse I don't own a cobra

[Cracker]

Rick - Yes you can ask questions regardless of Cobra ownership - you may not simply get any responses. Just kidding ask away!

[Cobranut]

Terry,

I run the more modern setup with the PCV in one valve cover and a breather in the other. I made a blockoff plate for the rear manifold opening.

I too had a small leak at that location. It started a year or more after finishing the car.
I removed the intake, cleaned everything thoroughly and reinstalled with Fel-Pro gaskets, but no end seals.
The first time I had used Permatex RTV, but this time I used an RTV from Valco. I sealed the intake gaskets to the head with Fel-Pro gasket adhesive and let them set overnight.
Then I put a healthy bead of RTV on the end rails and carefully lowered the intake into place, snuggung the bolts just enough to settle the intake onto the gaskets. I let it set this way overrnight and then torqued the bolts in sequence. I now have a 100% dry FE, one of very few from what I've heard.

Hope this helps,

[A Snake]

Just another two-bits worth here. First look in my gallery at the picture of the engine in my car. You'll note it is done '60's style. No valve cover breathers. Only a fill tube in the intake manifold. Just like they were originally.

The only thing I did was substitute a pcv valve for the old road draft tube out of the back of the manifold. I dummied up the original plate with a grommet and hooked the hose up to the outlet on the back of the carb.

I did not have any leaks on the top end at all. All I ever got was an occasional drip from the oil pan. Even that was minimal.

Now to my point.....finally. One thing many people overlook in building an FE is that most often there is a combination of parts from different engines. None of which was machined to fit together. Add a brand spanking new intake manifold which was manufactured to hit a "median" in sizing and it gets pretty tough NOT to have leaks.

The reason my engine did not leak, is that my builder carefully measured every mating surface, from cylinder deck to head surfaces and intake to cylinder heads. When he was done mating up my collection of parts, he had done a LOT of machine work. In case anyone wonders, I got to watch a fair amount of the build process. Until I watched him I actually thought I could build an engine!

Now, the point of all of this is:

Before horsing around with a bunch of gaskets and sealer, I would have a really competant FE builder (not a chebby guy) check out your top end fit. I know it may not be any fun to have to start taking things apart again, but it could very well answer your questions and get rid of the leaks at the same time.

Last note: A lot and I mean a lot of people professing to be engine builders, have no concept of what the words "close tolerances" means. Like most amatures, they figure silicone will cover up the problems. NOPE! All it does is prolong the agony.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I thought you should have something concrete as a basis for your investigations.

Happy hunting

Al

[Cracker]

A Snake - Good point!

My edelebrock manifold had to have over $200 worth of machining to mate up properly to the Edelbrock heads! It sounds crazy but things that are supposed to be plug & play simply are not always that way and I would have not caught the error if I had been assembling the engine. Conversly, as mentioned prior I too have no leaks on the top side (even in that peske area around the Intake/head/block) but as mentioned everything was measured - corrected - blueprinted, oh, I also paid $11k for my REBUILD so it better not leak!!!!!

[TerrysSPF]

Thanks for the input guys! Sounds like it's not something I want to tackle as a "winter project". The problem I'm having now is finding someone in my area with A LOT of experience working on FE's. I'll just have to keep hunting, I guess.