1000+ HP Supercharged FE
 

I thought this worthy of a cross post from the FE Forum. Jay Brown has provided a lot of detail of his dyno work on his 489" supercharged FE. Just incredible, can you imagine it in a cobra?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/messa...eid=1104823286

Chuck

I like how he says "I want it to be as streetable as possible."

:3DSMILE: I can't decide if thats funny, interesting, or just plain silly. Maybe all three. Everyone needs a challenge I suppose. Not that it matters, but I wonder what type of mileage he expects?! 3-4mpg :confused: *shrug* W/ a FE, its relative.

Nice. pretty useless in a 2400 pound car. 2.4 pounds per horsepower is pretty hard to manage.

It gets you a theoretical 1/4 mile time of 8.3 seconds and 169 mph in the traps.

He will probably get 10 mpg 12-13 on the highway. Boosted gas mileage is pretty much the same as regaular gas mileage, probably better. You are simply getting more efficient use of oxygen. The volume of mixture is increased but the power and torque increase as well so you are doing more work with less effort.

Gettin the thing hooked up is another matter.

4 show only
 

These high hp cars are good to show only, the last poor guy who had a 1,000 hp cobra on the street in Oregon went sideways headon into a car and killed himself and his passenger.
Take care,
Perry.:cool:

I have to chuckle at the predictability of human nature that this forum demonstrates.

Jay has built a fabulous engine, and provided exacting, and valuable, narratives of the problems and solutions associated with it. If I could, I would definately like to spend a few days as a fly on the wall in his shop. Obviously his engine is extreme, but I believe that is the nature of "hot rodding", after all.

Then, as with any extreme endeavor, he gets the automotive equivalent of "You'll put your eye out with that thing!" from the crowd. :)

I say attaboy! 1000 streetable, pump gas horsepower! Drop that monster in your favorite ride, buy stock in Goodyear, and let 'er rip. You earned it.

-Scouder

Scouder,

You are absolutely right. The new FE blocks are a dream come true for Ford guys. A serious hp motor that weighs less than 600 lbs. wet and is not the size of the 385 truck motors? I doesn't get any better than that. To have that much power under your control is truely awe inspiring.

Just because you have that much power doesn't mean you need to use it all the time. My pedal is infinitely adjustable - from no throttle to full throttle.

Keep the faith.

Brian

My ERA had a mere 667, WOW was that thing fast, and at times scary! I'm rebuilding now and detuning, BUTT there were times when even 667 horse just wasn't "quite enough".

Even with a 1000 hp, I wonder,,,,, do you suppose there will be some point where you would find yourself thinking, "it's not quite enough"?

Man this speed horse power thing IS addictive. Rock on! :D

Supercharged FE Kit. Interest?
 

I'll redesigning the kit I built for my 385 series for a customers FE powered cobra sometime this summer after I finish tuning and dynoing mine. If others here are interested in the kit, maybe I'll build more than one...it's all cad/waterjet plates for the most part. He wants a reverse-rotation T-Trim (smaller than my JT), and it would handle an S-Trim too (even the SQ quiet unit).

See my gallery and/or http://www.racesystems.com/cobra for pictures of my 385 series engine, and don't bash it, I know FE's rule and all that.

It's an EFI-Ized (160lb/hr injectors lol), 7.88:1 CR blue-thunder headed 433" 385 with a V7-JT Vortech reverse-rotation, forward-feed, center-scoop type configuration; all under the hood...viper 6spd...and in a west coast cobra. I'm expecting at least 1000fwhp on pump gas; the latest dyno sims say 1100. We shall see.

And yes, more than 500rwhp in cobra is pretty purposeless, unless you're attempting a jump to ludicrous speed, which I am. If I want to to pro-stock burnoffs on the freeway starting from a 65mph roll, that's my business. The guy in Oregon that killed himself died of bad judgement, not horsepower.

Centrifugal blown cars are great. You can dial the WOT power to whatever level you like with the twist of a blow-off valve adjustment screw. And, with a centrifugal, the engine is essentially naturally aspirated under 2500rpm anyway (it's a belt driven turbo, more or less). And, with injection and the centrifugal, it allows you to run gigantic intake ports and lumpy cams that would usually street like crap due to poor port velocity at idle and part throttle. I guess you'd have to see it to believe it, but it's true. Check out some of the latest cars that entered Hot Rods pump gas drags...several of those are very streetable legitimate 1000+hp street cars.

I'm sure mine will live most of its life at 5psi making lots of cool noises and 600rwhp; but it's sure nice knowing you have an extra 300+hp in reserve for 1320ft burnoffs at the drag strip when the mood strikes...isn't that what cobras are about?

The motor isn't in a Cobra...
 

it is in a Shelby GT 500

Worried about gas milage?!?!?!

I'm sure that's the first thing Jay is concerned with :D

Jeez, you sound like my dad!:D


--Mike

What Insurance?
 

I love the race eninges and hang out in the pits all the time,that's where they belong.

but, now when you put that into a cobra or muscle car you do affect "all of us," not been able to get insurance or skyrocketing premiums is what killed of the musclecars, not the gas crisis.
Let's see you give your insurance agent a copy of the dyno sheet.
Perry.

Re: What Insurance?
 

You are kidding right. Do you honestly have a Cobra? My insurance agent knows what kind of Cobra I have and he has never requested a dyno sheet. Has anyone else gotten that kind of request. Keep in mind that most of us already have specialty car insurance which is regulated to the amount of milage we put on the vehicles.

I think Jay has done a super job and really respect his ability and technical know how.
:cool:

Dyno Sheet Requirement.
 

If they start requiring dyno sheets, let me know. I have about oh...20,000 on file. I'll package them free with the block ID changing kits once Turk and I get our offshore manufacturing facility going full steam.

Byron

ByronRACE What is your boost on this motor at your 1000hp number? Is not the cfm on the vortech 1800? I was looking at Jay's readings on the FE forum and his EGT are HOT. Only 2 cylinders are in the green. I was wondering about that too. Around 1450 F you start to melt head gaskets. Been there done that. 385 heads have alot better exhaust flow than FE but with a blower and 16.0-1 compression from boost the problem is mute. Is that 6 spd going to hold up two 1k hp and 800ft of tork for long? Good luck when you get it on the road. Rick Lake

Seems like what is missing is a little Nitrous...that oughta spice things up bit. :)

Mike

Answers...
 

At this stage I can only bench race my engine...the car is not complete, and the engine has not been tuned and dyno'd yet.

The drive system on the V7-JT is a 80/30 cog setup. With that drive ratio, the blower is capable of flowing 1700+ CFM. The heads on this engine flow 400/300 at .600; they have been competition ported. The valves are 2.25/1.90. That said, this animal is a combination of parts I've never seen before. I don't know what it's going to do...but if the simulations are anywhere near correct, it's going to make about 700ft-lbs at 3000rpm ramping to over 900ft-lbs; and peak at over 1000hp. And do this with an effective supercharged compression ratio up top of under 15:1 on 91 octane fuel.

EGT on supercharged cars can run hot due to the rich mixtures and excessive timing retard used to avoid detonation. The exhaust valve opens and the combustion process continues in the exhaust. It's not unusual to see air/fuel ratios of 11:1 (very safe) and EGT readings of 1600+ if there is significant timing retard (16-18 total) present. Usually, this is a sign of an engine running too much effective compression ratio for the boost provided...it's being pushed. I'm hoping mine will take 20-24 deg total advance on pump gas with about 10-12psi, and should produce exhast temps under 1300deg F. I'll tune it around 10.5:1 up top. I don't care about the extra 100hp; I want it safe.

Will the viper transmission hold up? Well, honestly, I think it's a bit small for the job, but it's my favorite 6spd transmission for a street car. I've seen a few local vipers break the magic 1000 rear-wheel-horsepower number with these transmissions. And, in practice, you never are able to apply that much power/torque through a street tire anyway. Car & Driver beat the hell out of the Apex "Lethal" viper, which I had a hand in, and they couldn't kill it. It made over 700 to the tires. Once I'm done getting my dyno number and seeing what 1000hp feels like, I'll be turning the wick down and running a lot less, I'm sure. If it doesn't last, I'll call the guys at G-Force and get the beefy version. They have a gearset that is really nice. To tell you the truth, I'm more concerned about the clutch than I am the transmission. I have a local guy that designs kevlar clutches, and his package is just amazing. 1000rwhp through a single 12" viper disk, with pedal effort less than a new mustang clutch. It's been done. Mine is an improvement on the clutch used in the "Lethal" car, and has been used in a couple of nitrous assisted vipers that have seen that 1000hp number...it should be fine.

I'll post more as things progress...right now, it's all talk.

Byron

Byron Have you looked at the streettwin from Mcloed. It's a great setup with a lite pedal and will hold 1000hp. it needs to be setup with the right airgap. You can do this on a press and then put it in the car. G-Force, I love than trans. mine works great except when the damn driver goes from 4-1 gear racing. Need stiffer springs in the shifter to stop this. Long shift works great, so does the vertigate. I think Jay has too wide of a cam and like you said the fire is coming into the header. Your tires will set the stage for how long the drive train lasts. I had the supercharger on the motor in my car now but kept blowing the blower belt (clog) off the motor when running the setup was true. I have a new hood coming from ERA with the twin paxton bubble on it and will relocate the blower to inside the motor compartment and not in the right fender. I think this will fix the problem. Why 160 lbs injectors? 90's for your motor would be fine. I agree with fat and short advance on the timing as long as you have a large fuel system. I'm sure the car will be done in the spring:D Rick Lake

Firehose injectors...
 

The injectors I'm using are the ford Alternative Fuel Vehicle injectors as found on the propane and natural gas powered crown victorias. The reason for using them is that they have extremely good pulsewidth control at idle, as well as incredible flow. In addition, the use of injectors this large lets me drop my EFI fuel pressure down to 25psi differential instead of 40; essentially changing the flow rate of the injector down to about 100lb/hr. The advantage here is that there is significantly less fuel heating and the pump doesn' t work as hard. They work better than most other large injectors. A close second is the Siemens Dekka injectors; they are also nice...and more expensive.

It is difficult to keep a long cog system aligned when the blower is so far away from the crank pulley. The brackets inevitably flex, and the belt walks. As you can see by my design, belt length was minimized for this reason...I was so nuts about it, I went to an electric water pump as well, so I could design it very tight. The blower belt has 130 teeth and the crank pulley has 80...this should give you some idea how close the blower and crank are together; it looks almost like a jesel timing belt; only larger. I also went reverse-rotation so that the lever-arm against the crank was minimized; hopefully keeping my front bearing wear to a minimum.

Byron

Byron, are you fitting an intercooler in the passenger's footbox ala Pro 5.0 Mustang racers? I love how compact you've made the blower installation. My cog belt has 180 teeth !!! I cleaned the teeth off a few belts on the dyno, but an extra idler pulley up near the blower pulley has fixed the problem entirely. Now, I can pedal it if I get into wheelspin, and the belt holds steady. Getting on and off the throttle quickly would otherwise have stripped the belt.....

Nice rocker covers, too. Who makes them?