428 &toploader

saltshaker · #1 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 08:36 AM

will a overdrive toploader work with a 428...?

Excaliber · #2 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 09:34 AM

To weak, it won't handle the torque of a big block. It barely survives behind a stock small block.

sideoiler10 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 05:04 AM

I just recently had my toploader rebuilt by David Kee in TX, and I remember seeing a flyer packed in the return paperwork that said someting about modifications to a 4 spd toploader that will make it an overdrive toploader. Ernie, is that what you guys are talking about?

The way it read as I recall, it sounded like it would be just as strong as a std toploader but would have the 5th gear.

Might want to give Dave a call to check it out. I think the modifications added about $1K to the rebuild price.

Bob

Chaplin · #4 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 05:35 AM

never heard of that before, but it sounds interesting.

Would it have a 5th gear or would 3rd be 1:1 and 4th be an overdrive?

sideoiler10 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 08:08 AM

I just heard back from David Kee about the overdrive in a toploader. I guess I was partly right and partly full of ----! Dave says that they use a "Gear Vendor Overdirve unit for the toploaders. They cost $2695. Didn't ask about the durablility issue but I seem to recall good things about Gear Vendor?.

Might be interesting to find out how they work with the toploaders.

Bob

Power Surge · #6 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 11:05 AM

Gear Vendors are very strong, and could probably handle a very high powered Cobra.

The only problem is that the Gear Vendors unit is also about as long as the Toploader

. So you'd need something like a 120 inch wheelbase Cobra to fit in there

.

Excaliber · #7 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 11:19 AM

I was referring to the VINTAGE 'top loader' OD unit. 4th gear is actually OD within the trans itself. While the trans LOOKS like a typical top loader it is not. This was a 'last gasp' effort by Ford and was replaced with the T5. Only used in small blocks. The Aurora replica Cobra (out of Canada I think) utilized this trans.

I think an after market type add on OD unit would be fine, as far as strength goes. There are several options available for such a device. But like Sal said, your going to need a long wheel base car due to the length you end up with.

You know, $2600 will buy a LOT of gas! Even considering less wear and tear on the engine due to lower rpm I would guess it take years and years and 50,000 plus miles to even THINK about a break even point on such an investment.

ng8264723 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 05:47 PM

Your running a toploader? How's that working for you? What gears are you running?

Excaliber · #9 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 05:54 PM

Yeah, I got the classic top loader, in my case, it's a CLOSE ratio. 1st gear is pretty tall in a CR and some prefer the wide ratio for the lower 1st gear. Myself, I really enjoy the low rpm drop between gears and the higher 1st gear ratio makes it easier to control wheel spin. 3:31 rear gear and about 65 mph in 1st. How high a gear you go with largely depends on your cam profile. A friend of mine recently drove my ERA and leaving a stop sign he started out in THIRD gear accidently. That big torquey side oiler never beat an eye lash. Unreal, he let the clutch out, the motor settled down into about an ultra low 400 rpm 'grunt mode' and off we went. No backfire, no hesitation, just smooth, blew me away, I never tried that before!

Having a big block means never having to down shift.

ng8264723 · #10 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 05:58 PM

I'm putting the pieces togethere for a Kirkham. David recomends a 5 speed. I live in a rural area where most of the driving is 45-50MPH. I was figuring it may be the best for me. The funny thing is I have a few toploaders big in big outs in my barn. You end up spinning the motor a lot less with the 5th gear. I have a 6 speed in my 03 SVT Cobra and love the way that drives

Excaliber · #11 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 06:13 PM

Getting the right 5th gear is the tricky part. A .6 OD (typical) with the wrong cam profile is a freakin' nightmare, heck you'll end up running 4th and never using 5th anyway! At 45-50 it is doubtful you would ever need/use 5th gear regardless of it's ratio. More like 65 to 70 before I would even consider 5th. Another potential problem is ending up with an ultra low 1st gear ratio, typical in a 5 speed. A five speed is a GREAT idea, just have to be careful to get the right one with the right ratios that match your cam and your rear gear.

ng8264723 · #12 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 06:18 PM

Well just b/c the limit is 45-50MPH doesn't mean you won't be drivingt 65MPH! I figure on the highway that 5th gear would be great going to races etc. Dave advises to run a .82 overdrive gear

Excaliber · #13 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 10:02 PM

The PERFECT trans for me would be:
A 5 speed with these specs, which would work well with just about ANY rear gear and cam selection (unless either one is way radical).
1. 1st gear close to or same as typical WIDE ratio top loader.
2. 5th gear, as NG82 suggested, .82

My rear gear, optimum with this setup would be 3.5.
My cam selection would be a cam that pulls well from 2000 and ends up around 6200-6400. Because the rpm range is 'reasonable' I wouldn't go for 'monster heads'. A good reasonable head/intake configuration would work well on the street (and strip) and fit nicely with the cam profile.

Ahhh, the perfect 'street/strip' Cobra combination.



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