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Difference between a 390fe and 428fe?
Are they from the same block? I see a 428fe advertised as being a 390 block bored to a 428 cid. Is this how the 428's were concieved? Or are they two different animals? I'm confused and would appreciate a little clarification thanks.
John |
The FE motor series consisted of four or five basic engines. 352, 390, 406(?), 427 and 428. Biggest difference between any of them are bore, stroke and heads. 427 was too expensive to build for production because of tolerances and clearences. These were relaxed and the crank was made less expensive and the 428 was born. Most parts are interchangeable. Some parts require a bit of fitting, but will work.
Please keep in mind that my thing was building custom rifles for a long time and I'm comparatively new as related to some of these guys. If I've made any errors, please correct me.. |
The 390 cid is a 4.050 bore by 3.78 stroke (in inches)
The 428 cid is a 4.130 bore by 3.98 stroke (in inches) Many of the 390 blocks had cylinder walls thick enough that they could be bored out to match the 428 bore. Many others were not thick enough. Even when a 390 block has enough meat to take the 0.080" over bore, it is possible that there was a core shift in the mold when the block was cast. In these cases, one side of one cylinder may get too thin. This is why it is recommended that you pay the money to have the block checked before you have it bored, because if the 8th cylinder breaks into a water jacket, the block is junk and you still owe the man for boring the block. So in short yes a 390 block can be bored to the 428 bore and result in a good solid engine, but not all 390 blocks can be bored that far. What is important is after the block is bored, how thick are the cylinder walls? If they are too thin, it will have overheating problems. I would not trust that all shops know what they are doing. In fact, I'm certain that there are people boring too thin and gambling that it will not give you trouble. |
Fe
buy the book "High Performance Ford Engine Parts Interchange" by George Reid ISBN 1-884089-33-X $16 to $24
Big block FE (FORD ENGINE) 332 352 361 390 406 410 427 428 introduced in 1958 the 332 4" bore and 3.3" stroke 352 4" bore and 3.5" stroke 361 4.05" bore and 3.3" stroke 390 4.05 x 3.78 406 4.13 x 3.78 410 4.05 x 3.98 427 4.23 x 3.78 428 4.13 x 3.98 Buy the book and it will tell you what parts will work with what block. The 390, 406, 410 and 428 use 2 cranks and 2 pistons with the same 6.488 rod lenght. Some rods are better than others. The first 427 used a forged truck crank, which broke. So they designed a better one that broke and another till they had a crank that would last 24 hours at 7000 plus rpms. Great book. Dwight |
To clarify one of your questions, Ford produced FE blocks with bores 4.00," 4.050," 4.130," and 4.230". The (shell) thichness of the cylinder walls of the smaller bores are similar to the thichness of the larger bores, most likely to keep cost and weights similar. There simply is not enough meat to bore a 4.000" block out to a 4.230". So yes, each block is a different animal, in terms of the bore. Otherwise most FE engines have similar dimentions.
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38 cubes :)
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Something else to consider besides the possible overheating problem is ring seal. On tall deck blocks like the FE, the cylinder has alot of height that is unsupported. This is why drag racers like to fill the block with a concrete like material. To support the cylinder wall. Whenever your objective is to create horsepower, ring seal is very important.
So, there is always a trade-off to overboring more than would be required for the average rebuild. |
As referenced earlier, the 390 was a 4.050 bore and a 3.781 crank. The 428 was a 4.130 bore and a 3.984 crank. Ford 428s had a different water jacket core which can often be identified by the "428" cast in the bottom of the inner water jacket right under the center freeze plug.
I don't care what any ebay peddler says - the average 390 block cannot be bored out to a standard 428 bore with any guarantee of a long healthy life. Some of those guys are taking any $75 dollar core they can find and turning it into a $1000+ part with a boring bar and a "trust me" smile. Likely that perhaps 10% or less of the 390 blocks out there are going to be ok at that bore. If you are fixated on going .080 over on a 390 you should invest in a sonic test before boring - and be prepared to discard several blocks. Or just go with a stroker package for cubes, make nice power, and leave the bore at a safe dimension without any risk or drama. |
Lookin for an opportunity here.
I happen to have two FEs for sale. If you are going to do a 427 ( 3.78 stroke ), you need a block that will take a 4.23 bore. there are a few FE 390 blocks that can do it, but you will spend more money and time trying to find that block. So, a smaller bore 428 can be had for less. If you want one of the engines or, both ( thanks, I need the room :D ). PM me. :D :D :D |
The 390 was dsigned to anchor a 39ft boat while the 428 could hold a 42.8 ft boat from drifting:LOL:
Don't get me started! McVette |
There are no 390 blocks anywhere on earth that will take a 4.23 bore.
Its like getting a useful contributing comment from McD00 - - not gonna happen |
MaSnaka, I’m generally conservative by nature and my 428's build reflects that. I took the bore out to 4.155 and chose the “medium” SCAT stroker of 4.125. That works out to 447 cubes, and on this board that’s a reasonably mild build for a 428, but it would tax most 390s. If given the choice, go with the 428. It will open up more build options for you and the increase in price is not very much; certainly not sideoiler type money.
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Mentioned by Dwight:
" buy the book "High Performance Ford Engine Parts Interchange" by George Reid ISBN 1-884089-33-X $16 to $24 Big block FE (FORD ENGINE) 332 352 361 390 406 410 427 428 " I had previously purchased the book, excellent: http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/s..._ID=2933&DID=6 |
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Man, an't that the truth. He's got 62 posts and I think everyone of them have something to do with his 427 throwing a rod. %/ Here's my two pennies for him: 1. Stop building your own engines. 2. Put oil in the engines that you own. 3. Try not to bounce a 390 off of a 10k rpm rev limiter. There are hundreds of FE's on this one forum. Barry R builds them all the time, Keith Craft builds them all the time, George Anderson builds them all the time, shoot, I've even built them. I don't hear anyone else screaming about throwing rods except for him. However, that may be his way of trying to fit. Those may be the only engine-related words that he can put into a complete sentence while sounding somewhat technical. |
Brent, why do you let him work you up so? :confused:
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Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's just reading that same scripted response to every thread that has "FE" in it that yanks my chain.
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oh Mr. McDoo, you've done it again!
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Hey, McDoo. You said don't get me started. Here, let me insert the key and twist... you said you had some bad experiences with FE's... tell me more? MEATMASTER -"vote for your candidate as the 'best wiener on the grill' this fall!" |
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I spent big bucks on my FE for that "correct" looK, you guys knw I can easliy afford it,first it broke a rocker shaft and then the oil pump locked up and broke a tooth off of thE cam,finally it blew a rod threw the side with less than 2000 miles.:CRY: I was on a fishing trip with my old dog and it ruined the hole trip. My dog was pretty olD so he didnt have to many damn trips left. That's when I went off the wagon and everything went to crap with my second wife. She was worthless anyways. I'm still paying that B!tch!:mad: The guy woudn't stand behind it so I put is a SB stoked to 377. No more problems and it had more power than that damn POS FE. The smaLL blocks were world champs...kinda hard to argue wiTh that.... I really have ahd enough so lets just drop this and move on OK? Thanks. McVette |
Thanks for all the resposes...well almost all, to my question. I did see some advertised engines on ebay claiming to be 428 or 428 stroker and they were made from a seasoned 390 block. Prices seemed quite reasonable. I may be in need and wanted to know to stay clear or not. Staying clear. Thanks again for some very useful info.
Mcdoo everyone knows your story by now. Time for a new one. John |
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