Genesis Iron Block Owners. Please Check In.

[FUNFER2]

{Update- I don't think I'll be 100% happy with a iron block. This magazine side oiler build from the start, is about the 60's version compared to the new aluminum 2010 side oiler. I've done so much work to this point, so I don't think I can "settle",.... for the iron.)

I guess Tim of Genesis, may not be making aluminum blocks at this time ?

What do you owners think of your Genesis iron blocks.
Any bad issues ?
What year is it ?
What CI ?
What bore & stroke ?
Type of cam ? (I'm thinking a mechanical roller)
Brand of lifters ? (If a roller)
ect.....

1st- I was set with a 482 CI. but, I can go up to a 527 CI.

What's your thoughts with the following ?

This will be a radical driver, not a dedicated track car.
Not abused but, smash the pedal and have fun.
Pump gas. (8 + mpg)
Don't mind lashing the valves, need being.
Performance, is of course the meaning of a Cobra, but sound is equally of importance.

2nd- Tell me about your Genesis. Don't be shy with the good & the ugly.

[undy]

One word... h-e-a-v-y, more so than an OEM iron block. Don't compromise now Kev, when the light at the end of the tunnel is now visible. Get a line of credit that mama doesn't know about,,

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I guess Tim of Genesis, may not be making aluminum blocks at this time ?

I thought a alum. side oiler was going to reside in my cobra, but a engine builder said their not as plentiful now so, he suggested his iron block. He also said I may be happier with the latter for several reasons. This is not a debate of iron vs alum. so, I'll get on with it.

What do you owners think of your Genesis iron blocks.
Any bad issues ?
What year is it ?
What CI ?
What bore & stroke ?
Type of cam ? (I'm thinking a mechanical roller)
Brand of lifters ? (If a roller)
ect.....

1st- I was set with a 482 CI. but, I can go up to a 527 CI.

What's your thoughts with the following ?

This will be a radical driver, not a dedicated track car.
Not abused but, smash the pedal and have fun.
Pump gas. (8 + mpg)
Don't mind lashing the valves, need being.
Performance, is of course the meaning of a Cobra, but sound is equally of importance.

2nd- Tell me about your Genesis. Don't be shy with the good & the ugly.

[Mooch]

get a Pond aluminum block:

http://robertpondmotorsports.com

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by undy

One word... h-e-a-v-y, more so than an OEM iron block. Don't compromise now Kev, when the light at the end of the tunnel is now visible. Get a line of credit that mama doesn't know about,,

At least making it a 527 would save a little weight.

[dlampe]

When we were deciding which way to go on my new project, my builder talked with quite a few builders that had issues with the cam journals not running parallel with the crank. I'm not sure if its true or not, just reporting what I heard. I went with Pond Aluminum and I am very happy.

[FUNFER2]

That's funny undy.
I guess I did not know there was a weight difference. How much more ?

[undy]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

That's funny undy.
I guess I did not know there was a weight difference. How much more ?

Sorry Kev, can't help myself sometimes...

I believe there was a thread or two over on fordfe that said somewhere around 30lbs +/- heavier than an OEM iron. But it's a heck of a lot stronger too

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by DanEC

At least making it a 527 would save a little weight.

These huge-bore variations make me think of the old crack about motorcycle engines: "Bore it out one more time and you'll have a stack of washers!"

[FUNFER2]

yeah,...yeah,.... Dave lol

Like I just said in my pm to you. I wish I could edit my post heading from iron to aluminum. From the start of this magazine build is supposed to be about the 60's side oiler as a comparison to todays modern 2010 aluminum side oiler.

I know I will not be happy with a iron block, especially with all the time & work I've put in. Now is not the time to "settle"...... for a iron motor.

Do you agree ?

(Maybe I should delete this post and start a new one with aluminum in the heading.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by Gunner

These huge-bore variations make me think of the old crack about motorcycle engines: "Bore it out one more time and you'll have a stack of washers!"

lol

What bore size would turn your crank, with your next engine,...482 ?

[RodKnock]

First, I would check with the engine builders on this site about boring the Genesis block to 527. I haven't heard of a member here boring that big with a Genesis or Pond block. The only block that I've heard going that big is the big bore Shelby block.

Second, the Pond aluminum block will save you about 125 lbs over an OEM FE. The Shelby block will save you about 100 lbs over an OEM FE block. I believe I'm reasonably close on those figures, but double check me.

Third, while Barry R loves to use the Genesis block, from what I've read, many others have run into problems with them. On the other hand, "xl8or", Scott, used the Genesis block and seemed to have no problems at all.

Fourth, the Genesis block is about $1,000 less than the Pond block and about $1,600 less than the CSX block. So, upgrading to aluminum is not cheap, but then removing 100-125 +/- pounds and increasing the resale value of the car are two advantages of the aluminum block.

Fifth, an aluminum block makes it easier to spot leaks.

[silverline]

There is no need to bore a new block to the maximum. More than 4.31 can´t be done with an genesis or pond aluminum block I think.

With an aluminum block > go with 482 CUI (or 468 CUI if you prefer the shorter 4.125 stroke like me).

With an iron block > same as aluminum or 496 CUI (4.31 bore / 4.25 stroke).

Greetings from germany, Stefan

[FUNFER2]

I think,.... the 527 is the maximum they can be bored to I know the Shelby has much more meat but, the price is incredible. Also, like with any engine, the more troubles you can encounter with very large bores.

The walls are much thinner.
If you hurt a cylinder, the block is done.
If a rebuild is needed, sleeves are needed.
Increased heat.
Of course, it's more expensive.
ect....

I guess I'll have to sell the shirt off my back, to pay for a Pond or Shelby aluminum block.

I do have many sponsors for this magazine build but, the block is hard to swallow and takes up a lot of my budget.


Anyway, since I'm back from the dark side, with the ALUMINUM block. Talk to me about the parts used and the specifications or your motor.

Is there anything you would change ?

Why do you like yours so much ?

[767Jockey]

Kevin,
Just in case you haven't been told, you can NOT bore the Genesis aluminum block anywhere near as much as you can their cast iron block. It's much more limited in bore capacity.

[silverline]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Anyway, since I'm back from the dark side, with the ALUMINUM block. Talk to me about the parts used and the specifications or your motor.

Is there anything you would change ?

Why do you like yours so much ?

My Keith Craft 468FE is right now in progress:

Pond iron block w/ 4.25 bore
KCR 4340 forged crank w/ 4.125 stroke
KCR 4340 H-Beam rods w/ ARP2000 upgrade
Ebrock Stage-2 heads
Ebrock performer RPM intake
Comp cams solid flat tappet cam
Erson roller rockers
QFT 750 cfm mech. sec. carb without choke
Billet double roller timing set
Cometic gaskets

That 14 CUI more with 4.25 stroke would not make a big difference in HP/TQ, enough is enough. And I like the better rod/stroke ratio @ 4.125 stroke and lower piston speed. The ARP2000 upgrade rather isn´t necessary, but safe is safe and the cost not much more.

[dlampe]

I am building the same thing. My builder didn't want to build a square moter so we are using the 4.125 crank. The angles are better and if anything, it should ramp up a little faster.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by dlampe

I am building the same thing. My builder didn't want to build a square moter so we are using the 4.125 crank. The angles are better and if anything, it should ramp up a little faster.

I was told the 4.25 stroke and 4.25 bore was the way to go, but every builder is different. Some build 496's or Roush offers a 511 FE. Some build the 527.

For someone like Dean who's an accomplished racer the .125 stroke difference may make a difference in "ramping up", but so does using an aluminum flywheel or even starting with few hundred extra lbs that a fiberglass car has versus an aluminum one.

I'm not sure a mere mortal like me would see that .125 stroke difference. Sort of six of one, half-dozen of another.

Enough is enough? Hmmmm. Never been part of human nature.

[legenmetals]

Robert Pond is marketing Iron blocks as well as the aluminum.
At the end of the day its about all of the componets working together ie.bore and stroke,rod ratios(piston dwell at tdc and bdc,sidewall loadings),the ability of your cylinder head to work with the proper cam grind(flow numbers)blueprinting the engine,carburation.exhaust flow,ignition.All of these factors have to work in harmony with each other if not you may be spending money on parts that do little to increase power.The only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches but all the parts have to work together.Some engine builders have a formula that works for them and they stick to it but for me part of the fun of building an engine is doing all the research and analizing the methodology of the build.

[ng8264723]

I went with barry's recomendation and purchased and iron Genesis block. It ran well on the stand and the car is almost finished. It looks like it will be on the road in a few weeks. The registration may hold up cruising but that's another story.

[silverline]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Enough is enough? Hmmmm. Never been part of human nature.

As with alcohol.

Driving a cobra with excessive HP / low-end TQ isn´t funny. If you´re realistic, a well made 468 cubic-incher is enough for a light car. Why go the 482 route than (or even more) and not take the shorter stroke advantages? There´s nothing wrong with 482 in a cuiser, but no chance in my cobra!