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Just when you think you've got your FE poop in a group..
Just a random pulling of the PCV valve led to finding this, glcol in the oil.. The oil on the dipstick never showed signs of contamination either, perfect color. I tore it down this morning and first signs indicate that the leak is an intake manifold porosity issue. Ya gotta love Dove. All gasket imprints/contact were perfect, 100% even compression with no gasket stretch/creep or signs of leakage. There's is an area on the intake that's very suspect. A pressure test will tell the tail. I'll provide updates as it unfolds..
...sure does take the fun out of one's weekend..:CRY: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...olinoil002.jpg Dave |
Man, that's a mess ! :eek:
Do you dare pull the oil pan.%/ |
The froth just manifested itself in the valve covers. There was none in the engine valley. The oil in the pan is the proper color (minimal contamination) My plan is to leave the pan in place put some garden variety 10W30 and run the engine up to temp. I'll then dump that oil/filter and go back with my usual, Rotella T.
I think the leak's small enough and the contamination minimal that hopefully I've no bearing damage. Oil presure was, is and has always been great too. |
Good luck with the repairs Dave.
It's the wrong time of the year to have such problems. E |
Mine did that on a trip up to Port Angles. Turned out to be those FelPro print o seal intake gaskets I went with the Victor intake manifold gaskets and problem went away. I had nothing but foam on dipstick and had to change oil at the motel with Mobil 1.
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Dave that really sucks. Sorry to see these troubles man you've had your share. Hope your back up and running soon. Good luck bud!
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Thanks E, Glenn..
Michael, Those "FailPros" will do it to ya every time. I learned my lesson with those on big block chebbies. I made several crankcase milkshakes with those gaskets.. The good thing about this is .... I'm gettin' darn fast on this FE tear down/rebuild thing, 60 minutes flat from start to having the intake setting on the drop-gate of the Tommy Lift for cleanup and inspection. That's gotta be some sort of Jack Leg record or sumpin'.. BTW ... That 4' demolition crow bar in the corner works wonders on popping a well stuck FE intake.:eek::LOL: Almost turned the car over though..%/ Man, was that thing glued down.. Not a total waste though, I really needed to do some additional clearancing on the pushrod guide holes in the intake. Any tighter on the pushrods and they would have been a "press fit".;) Dave |
Are you talking using FelPro "Victor" gaskets on the RPM manifold too ?
If not, which ones ? |
Someone spoke about Mobil 1----The oil temps will run much cooler with syn oil and the valve cover condensation thing will happen---this would not happen with 240 oil temps and PROPERLY vented valve covers
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Kev, If you run Felpro on any intake you should be shot at sunrise. Anyway, If you're running Keith's stage IIs then you'll have to run his custom intake gaskets. That't the only gasket you'll find with big enough ports. You can try to hack up another but it'll end up leaking.
Jerry, This isn't a condensation issue. I've got a friggin half quart of antifreeze in the oil pan from an overnight stant pressure test. My valve covers are well vented too. Dave |
As I now understand it , The FelPro Print O Seal were intended for quickly changing not longevitety. I also was led to beleive that FelPro has another Gasket set line (which I haven't found yet). As it is now the Victor FE intake manifold gaskets are only avaiable through certain parts dealers. The Victor FE intake manifold gaskets are considered high performance, not stocked at even the local wharehouse, and have to be special orderd (from out of state) which means you have to pay list price plus shipping and still have to wait untill hell freezes over.
Depending on how bad the manifold flaws are you can have the intake manifold ceramic coated inside and out or just outside. I had my manifold checked for poruosity before doing anything, I then decided to go with the polished alluminum outside finish. I had the inside coated with another finish . It ended up smooth and flows great ( lousy low end ). |
FYI, I live in a much smaller city than Tacoma (born & raised in the NW) and I ordered the Victor Reinz intake gaskets (95159SG) from my local Carquest store and got them in a week for $45. I know, they're expensive. But they work. I have a 428 HiPo alum intake that was not square to the heads. Those were the only gaskets that would seal. Print-o-seals really don't work unless everything is square, and even then, lucky if they work for reasonable mileage.
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I would have to agree with Jerry. I think there is too much being made of the sludge. It doesn't look like a coolant leak at all to me. Looks more like the sludge that is created form too many short trips and not getting the engine to temp. I've seen hundreds of valve covers over the years that look like that and it had nothing at all to do with a coolant leak. That's probably why it never appeared on the dipstick. Oil is lighter than coolant and if you have enough of a leak to get that on the valve covers you should have a bunch in the bottom of the pan when you drain it. If you've already pulled the intake, you may have got some in there, but if you drain it before removing the intake, there is probably little in there. Condensation is always present inside and engine because of the exchange of air from the cooler outside into the hot interior of the engine. Getting it up to temps is what evaporates it. Most vehicles that you see with that type of valve cover sludge are usually used for short trips...maybe back and forth to work and never get completely up to temperature. That can kill a motor as bad as a coolant leak. IMHO.
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1/2 quart of pure antifreeze in the oil pan after a system pressure testDOES NOT equate to a condensation issue..
whew... I feel better now. |
You know people are trying to help you out----if you don't want help or suggestions from people who have been working on FE engines since 1958-----
Now , if you would like to consider a few facts-----oil condensation, whatever the source will appear IF the oil is up to temp and is not properly vented Oil temps are effected by systems with over capicity, coolers not needed or too large, improper oil ( Mobil One ), improper water temps, short trips Most of the manifold gasket problems are installer self induced---if your manifold leaks or the gaskets leak--go look in the mirror and you will find the person who had the last chance of preventing the leak So, I am assuming from your posts that you took the manifold off the engine and have now reinstalled it to pressure test it???? I repeat that your Valve Cover CONDENSATION is because of poor vent system and too cold of oil temperature no matter if your neighbor poured the water into the pan Thats the way things work on internal combustion engines whether they are FE are model T |
Jerry, Understanding people are trying to help me out, it's just a little frustating that when one states something, states it again and restates it a 3rd time.... no one seems to be listening. I do appreciate the insight though.
The manifold's off and the visual inspection was pretty conclusive. I am shipping it off for pressure testing/repairs, assuming it proves bad. The gasket's were not leaking though.. BTW.. I've got a degree in automotive technology along with quite a bit of mechanical engineering experience. I understand well how condensation forms and the requirements of a properly vented engine.. Dave |
Undy, I think you live too close to the ocean......that's sea water man ;)
If you would have joined the AF years ago, you'd be in some beautiful place like Nebraska, North Dakota, you get the idea, then that **** would have frozen like Mudslide shots. Good luck, sounds like a typical Dove piece. Maybe put it on the wall for show and find an original or a regular med riser. |
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Jerry, how is Mobil One the improper oil?
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No, I sure don't. I actually run about a 30% glycol, 70% distilled water with a bottle of water wetter mix. Sometimes I refer to the "mix" as antifreeze ...and I was trying to stress that my valve cover milk shake had nothing to do with condensation. |
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