Starter

[lovehamr]

OK, I apparently suck at searching because I can't find much info on starters here even though I remember reading some.

I'm about to pop for a starter and figured I'd take a look at what other FE guys are using before dropping the cash. Mine is a 462" 428 with Ebock heads (10-1cr) and a decent hydro roller from KC. I thought about just picking one up at O'Riely's or Auto Zone with a lifetime warrantee and when ever it died just get a new one. But I think I'd rather just get one that's going to last and still spin the puppy when its heat soaked. Right now RobbMC is the front runner for me.
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...t_starter.html

You guys with stroker FEs! What’re ya runnin’ and why?

Steve

[Gunner]

I believe you can save some significant weight with one of the geared high-performance starters. (You also get to sound like an old Chrysler while cranking. )

Look into Powermaster. Not cheap, but small, light, actually lower current draw and available with block-twisting torque.

[Excaliber]

Stock Ford OEM BB starter, NAPA, lifetime warranty. I think it was $60. Works fine for me, hot, cold, whatever.

[RICK LAKE]

lovehamr Steve There are a couple of things to know about the starters
#1 The stock starters are good for stock motors in the 9-11 compression ratio to crank when cold, when hot this is a whole different problem. This starter will draw about 200-240 amps to spin over the motor cold, hot could go as high as 300 amps. Your car needs heavy duty battery cables to handle this load. You need good grounds also to the motor. IF the battery is mounted in the trunk add ground straps between the frame rail and the block of the car.
#2 Alignment of the bellhousing, If this is not centered to the block you are going to chewup the bendix gear on the starter and flywheel teeth. Lakewood bellhousing all need to be centered. I replaced my starter gear drive after 2 years because of off centered bellhousing.
#3 IMO gear reduction starters are the way to go. They are smaller and take up less room, easier to cover and protect from heat soaks with shields. Only draw about 140 amps max. Can start a 16-1 compression motor. You can hook it up with or without a old style starter soleniod. The only down side is they don't crank the motor over as fast as a OEM one.
#4 It's easier to adjust gear clearance on a mini starter than OEM one. You want a .030" air gap between the teeth of the drive and the bottom of the flywheel gap between the teeth. This will give you long lasting life of both parts. Some guys have had to machine the starter housing for the correct alignment. Tilton starter comes with shims and directions to install. Only issue I have had is getting the 3rd bolt into the starter between the starter and block, not alot of room. Allen head bolt works the best with blue loc-tite on the threads. IMO any mini with a small top half and gear reduction in the 4.0 with work great. You may have to fine tune how you startup the car with the different in cranking speed. I pump of the carb is all you need instead of a couple and not running fuel pump until motor is running. The other side note is the oil pressure doesn't build up as fast from cranking the motor. Slower speed crank, slower pressure to motor. I use a accusump as a pre oiler. No problem with my motor. A bottle of lucas oil suppliment will also help. It's a clinging oil to help prevent metal to metal contact with starting. Good luck. 1 Vote for mini starter. How much room do you have to get to your starter? this may be another issue to deal with?? Rick L.

[FUNFER2]

"OK, I apparently suck at searching because I can't find much info on starters here even though I remember reading some"

lol,.... laughed my ass of.f as that's happened to me several times before.

I have a power master high torque and works great.

http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/starters.html

[Bill Bess]

Common sense approach to this starter question.
Try using a stock starter from the local auto parts store. If you have no problems with things like too much heat, undersized battery cables, mis alignment and the like, the stocker will most likely last a good longtime and perform great.
If you want to reduce the size for more room, spinn that baby faster and spend a lot of money..get a good high speed mini.

[undy]

big cubic inches and high compression = hi-torque, gear reduction starter with v-e-r-y large power and ground cabling.

[DonC]

I'm with the "stock" crowd. If you have a stock starter and it hasn't given you any hot/cold problems go with the reasonably priced unit from NAPA or one of the other commercial parts stores. I'm pushing a 428 w/ 10-1 CR and have been using a stock starter for over 35000 miles with not problems.
DonC

[ERA Chas]

Steve,
Not a stroker but I switched-out my 25 yr. old OE starter for an IMI mini on my SO.

8 pounds vs 16 and a pleasure to R & R now. 'O' gauge cable, no issues w/ 10.5 CR.

[Excaliber]

I did run a geared starter for awhile, eventually I broke the starter gear due to having the wrong ring gear tooth count on my flywheel. I also went through a couple of OEM starters before I figured that out.

My point though is this: The geared starter did indeed crank more slowly than the OEM starter. This was problematic under some hot start conditions, the motor would crank for quite awhile before it fired up. Like getting gas, buying a drink, hanging around "just long enough" to get the engine good and heat soaked but not long enough for anything to cool down. Under those conditions I still have to crank the motor longer to start, but it spins faster with the OEM and catches much sooner now.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Like getting gas, buying a drink, hanging around "just long enough" to get the engine good and heat soaked but not long enough for anything to cool down. Under those conditions I still have to crank the motor longer to start, but it spins faster with the OEM and catches much sooner now.

Ex, that's exactly the condition in which I would worry about an OEM starter. I've had a 372 clevor buck and kill an OEM under those circumstances and I can imagine what a 462 would do to one. It just seems like the geared starter would have a better chance.

Steve

[Excaliber]

But hey, $50 for a NAPA starter with a WARRANTY vs $250 for a geared starter with NO warranty OR parts available to repair if you do break the starter drive?

...it's a no brainer, go for the OEM at least until you get your motor, flywheel alignment, ring gear tooth count nailed down. NAPA got really tired of replacing my starter. That geared starter I bought for big money? They laughed and hung up the phone first time I called them!

[Woodz428]

I'd have to lean toward the stock starter with the engine you've described. Make sure it is a better quality one, but they have proven pretty reliable in my experience. Small things like number of balls in the starter bendix is what alters the quality of rebuild...in my mind. I ran a 428 CJ for many years and they are notorious for under hood heat. I think in the almost 20 years I owned it I replaced the starter once. I have a gear reduction one on our Coupe, but for the MKIII a standard style is what I have. I also use a mechanical fuel pump too. Same rationale.

[mickmate]

My opinion is we're making more power with less compression than they did back in the day. A factory type starter is quite up to the job and just fine for me.

[Rick Parker]

I will only reference the Hitachi type starter which is what the Tilton starter uses. There are knock offs just like any product, generally made cheaper for a reason. The starter drives and brushes are readily available, and the starter sprag is near bulletproof but an improved version is available if you really need it. They rarely cause a problem. They use less current, allowing smaller cable, less battery, and the starter itself weighs considerably less. Use your own judgement but it's an easy way to save close to 25 lbs. That's a considerable savings.

[Barry_R]

I've run nothing but OE starters on my personal stuff for decades. Seem to spin over the last engine I had in the ol' Torino just fine. It was only 505 cubes and 13.2:1 compression, made 712 on the dyno. Remember - the starter only sees cranking compression and drag - not cubes or power. The big cam will knock out a bunch of cranking compression and low tension ring packages reduce the drag a ton.

That said, some of the mini-starters are pretty cool for the weight reduction. Watch out for header and block clearances. Some of the mini's electrical connections have been known to hit both on occassion. Fixable - but better if you're looking out for the issues...lotsa sparks....

[blykins]

I use CVR starters on most of my engines. They are small, clockable, and have lots of cranking power. They are less than $200 for an FE.

[PANAVIA]

Vote = Powermaster +1

that stuff works.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

The geared starter did indeed crank more slowly than the OEM starter. This was problematic under some hot start conditions, the motor would crank for quite awhile before it fired up. Like getting gas, buying a drink, hanging around "just long enough" to get the engine good and heat soaked but not long enough for anything to cool down.

Ah, "chocolate ice cream" syndrome. Best automotive story I know.

Woman takes her car in and says it won't start when she buys chocolate ice cream, but it's fine when she buys vanilla. After much checking, the mechanic figures out it's a hot-soak problem. See, vanilla ice cream is prepackaged and she's in and out in a minute or two. Chocolate ice cream is hand packed to order and she's there ten minutes...

[lovehamr]

Great info guys, thanks.